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Canadian Government Makes Call to Foreign Startups for New Startup Visa

56 points by joeyczikk1 14y ago

dear 14y ago
Could it a sign that a startup bubble is forming?
- jewbacca 14y ago
  On its own? No more than the sun coming up in the morning. Which isn't saying "it's as certain as the sun coming up that there's a startup bubble.". I'm mean that, as far as startup-favorable actions go, this seems way too benign to signal much of anything. It could be driven by clueless end-harbinging followers try to cash in, but, on this article alone, it could just as likely be a small progressive victory, with the Canadian federal government doing something for a relatively voiceless potential constituency. The Canadian government rarely leads anymore on "progressive" matters, so perhaps if you could trace the influence that got this policy through it would point to something that could better answer that question. I am not personally familiar with the opposing parties involved.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
dobbsbob 14y ago
Canada lifted this idea from the US. Americans have had this scheme sitting idle for about 3 years now because congress is totally useless and has been blocking everything. The academic requirement is only 1yr post secondary but doesn't say if you need 1yr in a recognized "western" school or if your university of Bangladesh degree will be accepted.
- chollida1 14y ago
  > Canada lifted this idea from the US. Umm, I'm not sure why you decided that this was an American idea that Canada "lifted". Isn't it just a little possible that the Canadian government had this idea first? To paraphrase fake Mark Zuckerberg. "If you had invented Facebook. You would've invented Facebook."
  - dobbsbob 14y ago
    Because the Canadian government actually said they lifted the idea from the Americans who's similar program has been stalled in congress for years due to infighting about immigration.
    - chollida1 14y ago
      Hmm apologies if they actually said they "lifted"the idea from the US. I think you'll understand if i ask that you back up your claim with a valid source:). Any links?
casca 14y ago
TL;DR: If you can get funding from a Canadian VC or Angel fund, it'll be easier to get a Canadian visa. No links to the Government site to confirm details but this seems to be the official details: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/backgrounders/2013/2013-01-24.asp http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/backgrounders/... "In order to apply for the program an entrepreneur or startup must first have secured a minimum investment of $200,000 if the investment comes from a designated Canadian venture capital fund or $75,000 if the investment comes from a designated Canadian angel investor group. Applicants will also need to meet general program requirements, such as language proficiency and academic experience."
- redthrowaway 14y ago
  The problem we face is that Bay Street is startup-adverse, and there's not really a VC ecosystem outside of that. We've got a few YC clones, and then we have a few VCs doing series B type investments, but not a whole lot that bridges the gap.
rdmcfee 14y ago
Canada has long had great incentives for firms seeking to employ engineering talent (as long as your firm is already in Canada). It's about time we reduced boundaries for founders to come here and take advantage of the inexpensive engineering talent.
xoail 14y ago
Anything I read on April 1st, I am having to think twice if this is for real.
- robbrit 14y ago
  Beat me to it. Have never really thought of the Canadian government caring about entrepreneurs, other than token support to get votes.
  - chollida1 14y ago
    > Beat me to it. Have never really thought of the Canadian government caring about entrepreneurs, other than token support to get votes. Really? SHRED was all about helping new tech companies get started in Canada.
    - redthrowaway 14y ago
      Not to mention the R&D tax credit, which is transferable and instantly adds value to even failed startups. Being able to buy a startup for micenuts simply so you can write off 30% of their salaries (while still getting their employees) is pretty attractive for a lot of established companies.
      - biot 14y ago
        SRED is the R&D tax credit: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/txcrdt/sred-rsde/ http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/txcrdt/sred-rsde/
acangiano 14y ago
It's worth noting that here in Canada investments of over $200K in tech startups are far from common.
- fraserharris 14y ago
  That is dependent on location. Seed investments of $200k+ are not uncommon in Waterloo, Toronto, Vancouver. Montreal & Calgary are also active. Its all about who you know.
  - JVIDEL 14y ago
    Its all about who you know Yeah that last part sounded a little bad, like nepotism-bad.
potatolicious 14y ago
This is a good move, though I'm not sure how much good it will actually do. Canada's software engineering industry has a massive brain drain problem, bigger than the mainstream media knows, and bigger than even many tech insiders know. Of the people I graduated university with the people who are still in Canada are the minority, a notion that still boggles the mind. The bulk are in the US, and almost everyone I know who works on "startupy" things are in the US. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of people I know, still in Canada, working on startupy tech. The vast majority of my peers who remain in Canada are working in BigEnterprise, not exactly a talent pool well fit to encourage startups. Without making meaningful strides at reversing the brain drain, I feel like any policy changes are just bandaids over a gaping wound. Can there be a startup revolution when the bulk of your engineering talent is busy diving across the border?
- mjn 14y ago
  I know mostly folks going the other direction, moving to Toronto and Montreal from the US (and a few from Scandinavia) to start or expand businesses. But that's mostly in videogames, where it seems both Quebec and Ontario currently have very generous support programs (both outright grants and tax incentives).
- peripetylabs 14y ago
  That's been my experience as well. Those of us left in Canada are those who have not yet made the move to the US. Given the option, I know precisely where I'd be, and it's not here.
- lucisferre 14y ago
  This [1] article stated that there are 350,000 Canadians currently living in SV. That's around 1% of our entire population. Considering most of these are members of a small minority of skilled software people (no idea what the exact percentage might be) it's likely to be pretty a huge chunk of the total. It's a little surprising me how bad it is considering how much the Canadian government offers to tech startups (IRAP, SRED, etc.). However, the wages I see most established software companies paying let alone the startups probably has a lot to do with it. The lack of good software companies likely has more to do with the brain drain than anything else does. [1]: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/lessons-from-canadas-silicon-valley-diaspora/article535544/?page=all http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazi...
marcamillion 14y ago
>In order to apply for the program an entrepreneur or startup must first have secured a minimum investment of $200,000 if the investment comes froma designated Canadian venture capital fund or $75,000 if the investment comes from a designated Canadian angel investor group. Applicants will also need to meet general program requirements, such as language proficiency and academic experience. This is just silly. Especially the "academic experience". A good chunk of the people that do startups of this nature, probably won't have "academic experience" - so that's a self-selecting, self-defeating bias right there.
- lucisferre 14y ago
  If it's anything like other visa problems the academic experience is probably a little flexible. I was involved in getting a visa for someone from Microsoft who didn't have official "academic experience" however his position and history with MS was considering sufficient to justify it. That said, I completely agree it's a stupid requirement to place on this.
- raquo 14y ago
  The academic requirement is just one year of post-secondary, even an abandoned degree would work.
cloudwizard 14y ago
If nobody goes to Canada, it does not cost them anything.

56 points by joeyczikk1 14y ago

dear 14y ago

Could it a sign that a startup bubble is forming?

jewbacca 14y ago
On its own? No more than the sun coming up in the morning. Which isn't saying "it's as certain as the sun coming up that there's a startup bubble.". I'm mean that, as far as startup-favorable actions go, this seems way too benign to signal much of anything. It could be driven by clueless end-harbinging followers try to cash in, but, on this article alone, it could just as likely be a small progressive victory, with the Canadian federal government doing something for a relatively voiceless potential constituency. The Canadian government rarely leads anymore on "progressive" matters, so perhaps if you could trace the influence that got this policy through it would point to something that could better answer that question. I am not personally familiar with the opposing parties involved.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

dobbsbob 14y ago

Canada lifted this idea from the US. Americans have had this scheme sitting idle for about 3 years now because congress is totally useless and has been blocking everything. The academic requirement is only 1yr post secondary but doesn't say if you need 1yr in a recognized "western" school or if your university of Bangladesh degree will be accepted.

chollida1 14y ago
> Canada lifted this idea from the US. Umm, I'm not sure why you decided that this was an American idea that Canada "lifted". Isn't it just a little possible that the Canadian government had this idea first? To paraphrase fake Mark Zuckerberg. "If you had invented Facebook. You would've invented Facebook."
- dobbsbob 14y ago
  Because the Canadian government actually said they lifted the idea from the Americans who's similar program has been stalled in congress for years due to infighting about immigration.
  - chollida1 14y ago
    Hmm apologies if they actually said they "lifted"the idea from the US. I think you'll understand if i ask that you back up your claim with a valid source:). Any links?

casca 14y ago

TL;DR: If you can get funding from a Canadian VC or Angel fund, it'll be easier to get a Canadian visa. No links to the Government site to confirm details but this seems to be the official details: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/backgrounders/2013/2013-01-24.asp http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/backgrounders/... "In order to apply for the program an entrepreneur or startup must first have secured a minimum investment of $200,000 if the investment comes from a designated Canadian venture capital fund or $75,000 if the investment comes from a designated Canadian angel investor group. Applicants will also need to meet general program requirements, such as language proficiency and academic experience."

redthrowaway 14y ago
The problem we face is that Bay Street is startup-adverse, and there's not really a VC ecosystem outside of that. We've got a few YC clones, and then we have a few VCs doing series B type investments, but not a whole lot that bridges the gap.

rdmcfee 14y ago

Canada has long had great incentives for firms seeking to employ engineering talent (as long as your firm is already in Canada). It's about time we reduced boundaries for founders to come here and take advantage of the inexpensive engineering talent.

xoail 14y ago

Anything I read on April 1st, I am having to think twice if this is for real.

robbrit 14y ago
Beat me to it. Have never really thought of the Canadian government caring about entrepreneurs, other than token support to get votes.
- chollida1 14y ago
  > Beat me to it. Have never really thought of the Canadian government caring about entrepreneurs, other than token support to get votes. Really? SHRED was all about helping new tech companies get started in Canada.
  - redthrowaway 14y ago
    Not to mention the R&D tax credit, which is transferable and instantly adds value to even failed startups. Being able to buy a startup for micenuts simply so you can write off 30% of their salaries (while still getting their employees) is pretty attractive for a lot of established companies.
    - biot 14y ago
      SRED is the R&D tax credit: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/txcrdt/sred-rsde/ http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/txcrdt/sred-rsde/

acangiano 14y ago

It's worth noting that here in Canada investments of over $200K in tech startups are far from common.

fraserharris 14y ago
That is dependent on location. Seed investments of $200k+ are not uncommon in Waterloo, Toronto, Vancouver. Montreal & Calgary are also active. Its all about who you know.
- JVIDEL 14y ago
  Its all about who you know Yeah that last part sounded a little bad, like nepotism-bad.

potatolicious 14y ago

This is a good move, though I'm not sure how much good it will actually do. Canada's software engineering industry has a massive brain drain problem, bigger than the mainstream media knows, and bigger than even many tech insiders know. Of the people I graduated university with the people who are still in Canada are the minority, a notion that still boggles the mind. The bulk are in the US, and almost everyone I know who works on "startupy" things are in the US. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of people I know, still in Canada, working on startupy tech. The vast majority of my peers who remain in Canada are working in BigEnterprise, not exactly a talent pool well fit to encourage startups. Without making meaningful strides at reversing the brain drain, I feel like any policy changes are just bandaids over a gaping wound. Can there be a startup revolution when the bulk of your engineering talent is busy diving across the border?

mjn 14y ago
I know mostly folks going the other direction, moving to Toronto and Montreal from the US (and a few from Scandinavia) to start or expand businesses. But that's mostly in videogames, where it seems both Quebec and Ontario currently have very generous support programs (both outright grants and tax incentives).
peripetylabs 14y ago
That's been my experience as well. Those of us left in Canada are those who have not yet made the move to the US. Given the option, I know precisely where I'd be, and it's not here.
lucisferre 14y ago
This [1] article stated that there are 350,000 Canadians currently living in SV. That's around 1% of our entire population. Considering most of these are members of a small minority of skilled software people (no idea what the exact percentage might be) it's likely to be pretty a huge chunk of the total. It's a little surprising me how bad it is considering how much the Canadian government offers to tech startups (IRAP, SRED, etc.). However, the wages I see most established software companies paying let alone the startups probably has a lot to do with it. The lack of good software companies likely has more to do with the brain drain than anything else does. [1]: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/lessons-from-canadas-silicon-valley-diaspora/article535544/?page=all http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazi...

marcamillion 14y ago

>In order to apply for the program an entrepreneur or startup must first have secured a minimum investment of $200,000 if the investment comes froma designated Canadian venture capital fund or $75,000 if the investment comes from a designated Canadian angel investor group. Applicants will also need to meet general program requirements, such as language proficiency and academic experience. This is just silly. Especially the "academic experience". A good chunk of the people that do startups of this nature, probably won't have "academic experience" - so that's a self-selecting, self-defeating bias right there.

lucisferre 14y ago
If it's anything like other visa problems the academic experience is probably a little flexible. I was involved in getting a visa for someone from Microsoft who didn't have official "academic experience" however his position and history with MS was considering sufficient to justify it. That said, I completely agree it's a stupid requirement to place on this.
raquo 14y ago
The academic requirement is just one year of post-secondary, even an abandoned degree would work.

cloudwizard 14y ago

If nobody goes to Canada, it does not cost them anything.