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The whole "Cyprus people are getting into Bitcoin" narrative is a total lie as well. But I guess Bitcoin is a great learning opportunity for spotting Scams etc.

by Atropos 14y ago

The whole "Cyprus people are getting into Bitcoin" narrative is a total lie as well. But I guess Bitcoin is a great learning opportunity for spotting Scams etc., as long as people don't lose too much money, it might even be beneficial.

dragontamer 14y ago
While I'd like to believe you, a link to the "Cyprus lie" would be nice. :-) I don't think "core bitcoin" users are scamming anyone. But at this point, the speed at which BTC has grown has triggered my "manipulation trigger". A decentralized currency is prone to manipulation... its not like there is an FCC out there to stop people from manipulating BTC.
- dghughes 14y ago
  http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/03/experts-pour-cold-water-on-claim-that-cyprus-crisis-caused-bitcoin-boom/ http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/03/experts-pour-cold-wa...
  - gwern 14y ago
    That's incredibly stupid. They present no evidence, and here's the quote they lead with: > “If I was looking for a store of value, I'd buy gold, wouldn't I?” Edward Castronova, a professor of telecommunications, and an expert on virtual worlds and currencies, told Ars. “It's a hell of a lot safer than Bitcoin.” Castronova, have you ever heard of things like 'margins' or 'fungibility' or 'walking and chewing bubblegum'? You know, people can buy both bitcoins and gold - shocking as this may seem. The question is not 'are people physically on the island of Cyprus who would be buying gold instead buying bitcoins?', the question is 'on the margin, are people worldwide buying bitcoins because of Cyprus?' Nor is pointing out the recent rise an objection. The rise over the past months to $30 was relatively slow and gradual. The rise to $50 and then $105 has been meteoric and directly correlates with the sudden Cyprus crisis. Bitcoin literally started with criticism of bank failures and bailouts (check out the first block, by Nakamoto, in the blockchain) and immunity to this sort of shit is one of its main selling points. The burden of proof is on anyone who thinks that Bitcoin has suddenly just sorta accidentally tripled for no reason at all relating to Cyprus.
  - SilasX 14y ago
    >Why would anyone trust an electronic form of money that could get hacked and then diluted into oblivion?" Michael Pento, president of Pento Portfolio Strategies, told CNBC. Instant credibility death.
- mikro2nd 14y ago
  All currencies are prone to manipulation. Spend a couple of months trading forex (even on paper) if you don't believe me. The columes involved in forex trading (last I looked something like 3 or 4 trillion USD/day equivalent) are way beyond the capacities of /any/ central bank to "manage" or manipulate in their own favour, and it's an over-the-counter trading system, so mostly-impossible to regulate.
  - MacsHeadroom 14y ago
    You said the forex market is prone to manipulation and then said that it's way beyond the capacities of any central bank to manipulate. So which is it?
nawitus 14y ago
So you can objectively tell that "bitcoin is a scam"? Sure, there might be bubbles, but that doesn't mean bitcoin is a scam.
- kiba 14y ago
  I think he meant getting scammed in bitcoinland, rather than thinking bitcoin itself is a scam.
PassTheAmmo 14y ago
Actually for me bitcoin proves just how few people can ACTUALLY spot a pyramid scheme or a pump and dump - instead resorting to calling everything that seems too good to be true a scam. It may work 99.9% of the time, but BTC is the false positive IMO. I totally agree that the Cyprus thing is totally bogus though, journalists are uninformed and lazy as usual. The real reason is that it seems more and more likely that bitcoin will be the currency of the Internet in the future. And nothing else.
- niggler 14y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UKC7iaBKvs#t=768s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UKC7iaBKvs#t=768s A pretty brilliant scam if you ask me
  - imsofuture 14y ago
    That's not a terribly good point though -- fiat currency also has no intrinsic value.
    - niggler 14y ago
      That's a misunderstanding of history. USD used to be backed by silver and all bills said "in silver payable to the bearer on demand". It was only relatively recently that the practice ended. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/US-%245-SC-1953-Fr.1655.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/US-%245-...
      - Karunamon 14y ago
        It doesn't really invalidate his statement though. The USD is not backed by anything (whether it was in the past or not is irrelevant), and aside from the fact that it's commonly accepted, has no more intrinsic value than Bitcoin.
        prodigal_erik 14y ago
drivebyacct2 14y ago
I'm growing really bored of people who don't know what they're talking about calling Bitcoin a scam.
- tudorizer 14y ago
  same here...

by Atropos 14y ago

dragontamer 14y ago

While I'd like to believe you, a link to the "Cyprus lie" would be nice. :-) I don't think "core bitcoin" users are scamming anyone. But at this point, the speed at which BTC has grown has triggered my "manipulation trigger". A decentralized currency is prone to manipulation... its not like there is an FCC out there to stop people from manipulating BTC.

dghughes 14y ago
http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/03/experts-pour-cold-water-on-claim-that-cyprus-crisis-caused-bitcoin-boom/ http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/03/experts-pour-cold-wa...
- gwern 14y ago
  That's incredibly stupid. They present no evidence, and here's the quote they lead with: > “If I was looking for a store of value, I'd buy gold, wouldn't I?” Edward Castronova, a professor of telecommunications, and an expert on virtual worlds and currencies, told Ars. “It's a hell of a lot safer than Bitcoin.” Castronova, have you ever heard of things like 'margins' or 'fungibility' or 'walking and chewing bubblegum'? You know, people can buy both bitcoins and gold - shocking as this may seem. The question is not 'are people physically on the island of Cyprus who would be buying gold instead buying bitcoins?', the question is 'on the margin, are people worldwide buying bitcoins because of Cyprus?' Nor is pointing out the recent rise an objection. The rise over the past months to $30 was relatively slow and gradual. The rise to $50 and then $105 has been meteoric and directly correlates with the sudden Cyprus crisis. Bitcoin literally started with criticism of bank failures and bailouts (check out the first block, by Nakamoto, in the blockchain) and immunity to this sort of shit is one of its main selling points. The burden of proof is on anyone who thinks that Bitcoin has suddenly just sorta accidentally tripled for no reason at all relating to Cyprus.
- SilasX 14y ago
  >Why would anyone trust an electronic form of money that could get hacked and then diluted into oblivion?" Michael Pento, president of Pento Portfolio Strategies, told CNBC. Instant credibility death.
mikro2nd 14y ago
All currencies are prone to manipulation. Spend a couple of months trading forex (even on paper) if you don't believe me. The columes involved in forex trading (last I looked something like 3 or 4 trillion USD/day equivalent) are way beyond the capacities of /any/ central bank to "manage" or manipulate in their own favour, and it's an over-the-counter trading system, so mostly-impossible to regulate.
- MacsHeadroom 14y ago
  You said the forex market is prone to manipulation and then said that it's way beyond the capacities of any central bank to manipulate. So which is it?

nawitus 14y ago

So you can objectively tell that "bitcoin is a scam"? Sure, there might be bubbles, but that doesn't mean bitcoin is a scam.

kiba 14y ago
I think he meant getting scammed in bitcoinland, rather than thinking bitcoin itself is a scam.

PassTheAmmo 14y ago

Actually for me bitcoin proves just how few people can ACTUALLY spot a pyramid scheme or a pump and dump - instead resorting to calling everything that seems too good to be true a scam. It may work 99.9% of the time, but BTC is the false positive IMO. I totally agree that the Cyprus thing is totally bogus though, journalists are uninformed and lazy as usual. The real reason is that it seems more and more likely that bitcoin will be the currency of the Internet in the future. And nothing else.

niggler 14y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UKC7iaBKvs#t=768s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UKC7iaBKvs#t=768s A pretty brilliant scam if you ask me
- imsofuture 14y ago
  That's not a terribly good point though -- fiat currency also has no intrinsic value.
  - niggler 14y ago
    That's a misunderstanding of history. USD used to be backed by silver and all bills said "in silver payable to the bearer on demand". It was only relatively recently that the practice ended. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/US-%245-SC-1953-Fr.1655.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/US-%245-...
    - Karunamon 14y ago
      It doesn't really invalidate his statement though. The USD is not backed by anything (whether it was in the past or not is irrelevant), and aside from the fact that it's commonly accepted, has no more intrinsic value than Bitcoin.
      - prodigal_erik 14y ago

drivebyacct2 14y ago

I'm growing really bored of people who don't know what they're talking about calling Bitcoin a scam.

tudorizer 14y ago
same here...