5 ms·

> The [] keys are closer to the central row of your keyboard than the less comfortable (). > You don't need to hold the shift key to type [] therefore you can

by Wilya 14y ago

> The [] keys are closer to the central row of your keyboard than the less comfortable (). > You don't need to hold the shift key to type [] therefore you can code faster. That's true only for a standard US-qwerty keyboard layout. My [] are located at altGr + (). These guys clearly haven't though i18n through. And if there are such blatant omissions on their front page, who knows what's lurking in the code ?

berntb 14y ago
Why don't you give up and map your keyboard to US for programming, like all the rest of us? :-) (It is not so bad to hit both shift keys to get back åäö.) Edit: mpyne -- good thought, but we international users have our national keyboards in the fingertips, it is imho generally easier to switch layouts. Edit 2: dkersten -- my productivity-porn time wasting is used up by browsing Emacs packages. :-) I'll check it out if I get wrist problems.
- dkersten 14y ago
  Pfft, why don't you give up and map your keyboard to Colemak for programming (and everything else), like.. well.. the few people like me.. ;-)
  - krenoten 14y ago
    Did you completely lose your ability to use non-colemak layouts after switching, as I recently have?
    - dkersten 14y ago
      I can use it, but I can't touchtype it, so I do feel a little stupid sometimes typing on qwerty and probably couldn't do it without at least glancing at my hands. Its worth it for me though because I spend so much more typing on my own colemak keyboard than I type on qwerty.
    - reeses 14y ago
      The standard recommendation is to type Sholes 5-10 minutes a day to maintain your ability to hurt your wrists. I haven't bothered to do that and it's a good thing I leave my keycaps alone for the few times I run a VM that is stuck in US layout. I've lost the rolls and fingerings as I've gained them with Colemak. It's really sad when I have to use someone else's computer, but then I remember that my emails were never longer than a tweet when I first started with Colemak.
- mpyne 14y ago
  US-intl (w/ dead key) is actually surprisingly useful for accented characters, from what I could tell on the infrequent occasion I have to try it out.
  - epsylon 14y ago
    Yep, US-international works better for me than the french azerty layout for typing french: the latter has no dedicated key for characters like Ç or É.
wtetzner 14y ago
I've always found () to be easier to type on a qwerty keyboard. I can reach straight up with my middle and ring fingers, without moving my hands. For [], I have to move my hand to the right, away from home position.
- chongli 14y ago
  Strange. I type [] with my right pinky finger. I find it a lot easier than () which requires the shift key.
dopamean 14y ago
April fools...?
kintamanimatt 14y ago
> And if there are such blatant omissions on their front page, who knows what's lurking in the code ? There probably are bugs but not because they're unaware of every keyboard layout. It's far easier to accommodate different languages, currencies, number formats, etc than it is to accommodate every keyboard layout. English and US keyboard layouts (or its close relatives), for better or worse, dominate the programming world. I don't think the conclusion you've drawn, that there must be issues with the code because your local keyboard layout hasn't been thought of, is logical. That's like saying that because the language keywords and standard library aren't in your native language, there must be dragons lurking in the code. Having said all this, Clochure does appear to be a nice little April 1st joke and should be flagged with prejudice!
pseut 14y ago
Even for US keyboards, the obviously better step is to replace "(" and ")" with "9" and "0" -- familiar key location but without the shift key. Plus you avoid using the pinky finger which is an ergonomic win. Edit: note that there might be a small tradeoff in readability.
- mackwic 14y ago
  I know some lisp programmers who uses this[1] to code. The left foot pedal open a parenthesis, the right one close all parenthesis. I find that's quite clever, though, considering the use of theses two characters. [1]: http://img2.generation-nt.com/xbox-360-pedalier_090320025800048201.jpg http://img2.generation-nt.com/xbox-360-pedalier_090320025800...
  - danneu 14y ago
    With a s-expr edit tool like Paredit, you never have to write closing delimiters.
    - mackwic 14y ago
      Is the code still readable ?
      - Tcepsa 14y ago
        The code comes out looking the same; Paredit helps manage the parentheses for you (especially the closing ones, which it inserts automatically).
        reeses 14y ago
        Some might even call it "electric!"
- leoc 14y ago
  I've said it before: j and k are the obvious replacements if you want to ruthlessly Huffman-code your Lisp-typing experience. I, mean how often do you really see j or k inside the text of an atom? Not very often.

by Wilya 14y ago

berntb 14y ago

Why don't you give up and map your keyboard to US for programming, like all the rest of us? :-) (It is not so bad to hit both shift keys to get back åäö.) Edit: mpyne -- good thought, but we international users have our national keyboards in the fingertips, it is imho generally easier to switch layouts. Edit 2: dkersten -- my productivity-porn time wasting is used up by browsing Emacs packages. :-) I'll check it out if I get wrist problems.

dkersten 14y ago
Pfft, why don't you give up and map your keyboard to Colemak for programming (and everything else), like.. well.. the few people like me.. ;-)
- krenoten 14y ago
  Did you completely lose your ability to use non-colemak layouts after switching, as I recently have?
  - dkersten 14y ago
    I can use it, but I can't touchtype it, so I do feel a little stupid sometimes typing on qwerty and probably couldn't do it without at least glancing at my hands. Its worth it for me though because I spend so much more typing on my own colemak keyboard than I type on qwerty.
  - reeses 14y ago
    The standard recommendation is to type Sholes 5-10 minutes a day to maintain your ability to hurt your wrists. I haven't bothered to do that and it's a good thing I leave my keycaps alone for the few times I run a VM that is stuck in US layout. I've lost the rolls and fingerings as I've gained them with Colemak. It's really sad when I have to use someone else's computer, but then I remember that my emails were never longer than a tweet when I first started with Colemak.
mpyne 14y ago
US-intl (w/ dead key) is actually surprisingly useful for accented characters, from what I could tell on the infrequent occasion I have to try it out.
- epsylon 14y ago
  Yep, US-international works better for me than the french azerty layout for typing french: the latter has no dedicated key for characters like Ç or É.

wtetzner 14y ago

I've always found () to be easier to type on a qwerty keyboard. I can reach straight up with my middle and ring fingers, without moving my hands. For [], I have to move my hand to the right, away from home position.

chongli 14y ago
Strange. I type [] with my right pinky finger. I find it a lot easier than () which requires the shift key.

dopamean 14y ago

April fools...?

kintamanimatt 14y ago

> And if there are such blatant omissions on their front page, who knows what's lurking in the code ? There probably are bugs but not because they're unaware of every keyboard layout. It's far easier to accommodate different languages, currencies, number formats, etc than it is to accommodate every keyboard layout. English and US keyboard layouts (or its close relatives), for better or worse, dominate the programming world. I don't think the conclusion you've drawn, that there must be issues with the code because your local keyboard layout hasn't been thought of, is logical. That's like saying that because the language keywords and standard library aren't in your native language, there must be dragons lurking in the code. Having said all this, Clochure does appear to be a nice little April 1st joke and should be flagged with prejudice!

pseut 14y ago

Even for US keyboards, the obviously better step is to replace "(" and ")" with "9" and "0" -- familiar key location but without the shift key. Plus you avoid using the pinky finger which is an ergonomic win. Edit: note that there might be a small tradeoff in readability.

mackwic 14y ago
I know some lisp programmers who uses this[1] to code. The left foot pedal open a parenthesis, the right one close all parenthesis. I find that's quite clever, though, considering the use of theses two characters. [1]: http://img2.generation-nt.com/xbox-360-pedalier_090320025800048201.jpg http://img2.generation-nt.com/xbox-360-pedalier_090320025800...
- danneu 14y ago
  With a s-expr edit tool like Paredit, you never have to write closing delimiters.
  - mackwic 14y ago
    Is the code still readable ?
    - Tcepsa 14y ago
      The code comes out looking the same; Paredit helps manage the parentheses for you (especially the closing ones, which it inserts automatically).
      - reeses 14y ago
        Some might even call it "electric!"
leoc 14y ago
I've said it before: j and k are the obvious replacements if you want to ruthlessly Huffman-code your Lisp-typing experience. I, mean how often do you really see j or k inside the text of an atom? Not very often.