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If you were a great student you applied to the university of Iowa. Which is a very good school. The other problem a small but important segment of our society

by vwoolf 14y ago

If you were a great student you applied to the university of Iowa. Which is a very good school. The other problem a small but important segment of our society has is believing in the magic of very well marketed schools. Really, there are lots of good universities, and I don't think many people's lives are going to be made or broken by whether they're at U of Iowa or some other school, especially for undergrad.

rayiner 14y ago
University of Iowa is a very good school, no doubt. But depending on what you want to do with your life, it can close a lot of doors. Top-tier banks and management consulting companies don't recruit heavily from U of I, nor do top-tier tech companies for that matter (though the distinction is less marked). When you look at the fraction of the upper echelons of corporate America that come from those backgrounds, that's significant. I went to a state school for undergrad, but where I currently work most people have at least one Ivy on their resume. The difference in our undergraduate social networks is really quite dramatic in terms of peoples' career trajectories.
- stephencanon 14y ago
  On the other hand, a student who does well at U of I can absolutely get into the elite schools for grad school, at which point they become part of the club. It’s one more step, but the doors aren’t closed.
  - geogra4 14y ago
    I would also argue that state school graduates have a different concept of what they want out of life. In general my social circle had more people who were comfortable in more traditional career paths such as accounting, actuarial, engineering, finance, teaching, etc. Balancing a comfortable income and having a life were more important than striking it rich at all costs.
- Evbn 14y ago
  The problem has has nothing to do with Iowa's status and everything to do with the banks+consultants hijacking of wealth in America. You don't need to fix the schools, you need to fix the wealth structure. There is no value in replacing a pack of NY assholes by a pack of IA assholes.
- geogra4 14y ago
  What's a 'top tier tech company'? When I went to school at Penn State, we had Amazon, MS, Google, Cisco, Intel, Oracle, etc. all come to our career fair. It's not like quality graduates had trouble finding excellent jobs. I had a roommate who ended up at JPMorgan, and a few more distant associates really hit the jackpot in the Oil and Gas industry. I will agree that if your life goal is a 100/hr a week investment banking position or some top tier management consulting position in NYC then a big state school probably isn't where you want to be. But you can't study petroleum engineering at Yale so it works both ways.
  - rayiner 14y ago
    Coming to a career fair is quite a bit different than coming to a school expecting to hire tons of people from there. Lots of companies go to career fairs at certain schools looking to pick off the very tippy-top kids, but they go to Stanford, Harvard, etc, looking to really fill their class. JPM doesn't care if it doesn't pick up anyone at UNC in a given year. It'd be a disaster to the recruiting people if they didn't pick up anyone at Wharton in a given year. Of course you're right, these companies aren't the beginning and end of the great jobs available to college grads. If you have zero interest in these jobs, going to the most elite schools is much less important. At the same time, there is a reason a quarter of MIT grads end up in finance and consulting (pre-recession, it was a third). For better or worse, they offer relatively low-risk paths into the upper echelons of corporate America.
  - ritchiea 14y ago
    Penn State is not a typical public university. You might as well have said UC-Berkeley. Hell Penn is a public university and an Ivy.
    - sqrt 14y ago
      Penn and Penn State are distinct universities; Penn State is a public university (and not an Ivy), while Penn is a private university (and an Ivy).
      - ritchiea 14y ago
ritchiea 14y ago
There are dozens of great schools that aren't Ivies. I used to be in your camp on this issue but one thing I noticed is that going to an Ivy gives you access to resources that you don't necessarily get at a great school that isn't an Ivy. You can, without a doubt, get a great education outside of an elite school. But going to an Ivy gives you access to better speakers, better alumni networks, more institutional resources granted to students to do interesting/valuable things while they are at the university, the list goes on.
- ritchiea 14y ago
  Seriously a downvote? What is downvote worthy about this comment? Is is really that controversial or incorrect to say you can get a great education in many places that don't have the same total resources as Ivies provide to their students?

by vwoolf 14y ago

rayiner 14y ago

University of Iowa is a very good school, no doubt. But depending on what you want to do with your life, it can close a lot of doors. Top-tier banks and management consulting companies don't recruit heavily from U of I, nor do top-tier tech companies for that matter (though the distinction is less marked). When you look at the fraction of the upper echelons of corporate America that come from those backgrounds, that's significant. I went to a state school for undergrad, but where I currently work most people have at least one Ivy on their resume. The difference in our undergraduate social networks is really quite dramatic in terms of peoples' career trajectories.

stephencanon 14y ago
On the other hand, a student who does well at U of I can absolutely get into the elite schools for grad school, at which point they become part of the club. It’s one more step, but the doors aren’t closed.
- geogra4 14y ago
  I would also argue that state school graduates have a different concept of what they want out of life. In general my social circle had more people who were comfortable in more traditional career paths such as accounting, actuarial, engineering, finance, teaching, etc. Balancing a comfortable income and having a life were more important than striking it rich at all costs.
Evbn 14y ago
The problem has has nothing to do with Iowa's status and everything to do with the banks+consultants hijacking of wealth in America. You don't need to fix the schools, you need to fix the wealth structure. There is no value in replacing a pack of NY assholes by a pack of IA assholes.
geogra4 14y ago
What's a 'top tier tech company'? When I went to school at Penn State, we had Amazon, MS, Google, Cisco, Intel, Oracle, etc. all come to our career fair. It's not like quality graduates had trouble finding excellent jobs. I had a roommate who ended up at JPMorgan, and a few more distant associates really hit the jackpot in the Oil and Gas industry. I will agree that if your life goal is a 100/hr a week investment banking position or some top tier management consulting position in NYC then a big state school probably isn't where you want to be. But you can't study petroleum engineering at Yale so it works both ways.
- rayiner 14y ago
  Coming to a career fair is quite a bit different than coming to a school expecting to hire tons of people from there. Lots of companies go to career fairs at certain schools looking to pick off the very tippy-top kids, but they go to Stanford, Harvard, etc, looking to really fill their class. JPM doesn't care if it doesn't pick up anyone at UNC in a given year. It'd be a disaster to the recruiting people if they didn't pick up anyone at Wharton in a given year. Of course you're right, these companies aren't the beginning and end of the great jobs available to college grads. If you have zero interest in these jobs, going to the most elite schools is much less important. At the same time, there is a reason a quarter of MIT grads end up in finance and consulting (pre-recession, it was a third). For better or worse, they offer relatively low-risk paths into the upper echelons of corporate America.
- ritchiea 14y ago
  Penn State is not a typical public university. You might as well have said UC-Berkeley. Hell Penn is a public university and an Ivy.
  - sqrt 14y ago
    Penn and Penn State are distinct universities; Penn State is a public university (and not an Ivy), while Penn is a private university (and an Ivy).
    - ritchiea 14y ago

ritchiea 14y ago

There are dozens of great schools that aren't Ivies. I used to be in your camp on this issue but one thing I noticed is that going to an Ivy gives you access to resources that you don't necessarily get at a great school that isn't an Ivy. You can, without a doubt, get a great education outside of an elite school. But going to an Ivy gives you access to better speakers, better alumni networks, more institutional resources granted to students to do interesting/valuable things while they are at the university, the list goes on.

ritchiea 14y ago
Seriously a downvote? What is downvote worthy about this comment? Is is really that controversial or incorrect to say you can get a great education in many places that don't have the same total resources as Ivies provide to their students?