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I disagree that socialism is democratic by its very definition. The definition usually includes ownership and operation of the means of production by the 'commu

I disagree that socialism is democratic by its very definition. The definition usually includes ownership and operation of the means of production by the 'community' or by the 'state.' But both the community and state have leaders (except in extremely small communities like some instances of Occupy Wall Street where members engaged in group voting on everything - direct democracy), and those leaders are selected somehow. Even if the representatives resulting from the selection process (which, in pure socialism, is usually a non-democratic process conducted by political elites) were to truly represent the entire population, there may be conflict and a variety of opinions on how to proceed on any given issue. Those who win these conflicts might be called leaders, and they are not engaging in direct democracy. Direct democracy is one exception to this.

jack9 14y ago
> The definition usually includes ownership and operation of the means of production by the 'community' or by the 'state. "Usually" is because "usually" people are redefining it, improperly. Hence the preface, "by definition". Socialism, by definition, is impractical (just like democracy!). All resources end up in managed groupings with communal elected leaders, to satisfy the philosophy, in practice. This is why communism (the practical application of socialism) is so often mixed in with the concept of socialism. Imagine the entire US population voting on whether or not to put a street light in Laguna Beach. Direct democracy has the exact same problem. So you got it half right, making the traditional mistakes.
m0skit0 14y ago
Sorry, I think you're wrong. Socialism, as a means to obtain equality, must be intrinsically democratic. All socialist parties I know about are democratic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_centralism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_centralism As I said, "socialism" is well defined. If some people like to attribute this "adjective" to their policies/country/whatever that's up to them, not to real socialism meaning.

jack9 14y ago

> The definition usually includes ownership and operation of the means of production by the 'community' or by the 'state. "Usually" is because "usually" people are redefining it, improperly. Hence the preface, "by definition". Socialism, by definition, is impractical (just like democracy!). All resources end up in managed groupings with communal elected leaders, to satisfy the philosophy, in practice. This is why communism (the practical application of socialism) is so often mixed in with the concept of socialism. Imagine the entire US population voting on whether or not to put a street light in Laguna Beach. Direct democracy has the exact same problem. So you got it half right, making the traditional mistakes.

m0skit0 14y ago

Sorry, I think you're wrong. Socialism, as a means to obtain equality, must be intrinsically democratic. All socialist parties I know about are democratic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_centralism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_centralism As I said, "socialism" is well defined. If some people like to attribute this "adjective" to their policies/country/whatever that's up to them, not to real socialism meaning.