3 ms·

As a 32 year-old trying to break into Silicon Valley and feeling the strong effects of subtle (and no so sutble!) age discrimination, I found the headline and t

by wilfra 14y ago

As a 32 year-old trying to break into Silicon Valley and feeling the strong effects of subtle (and no so sutble!) age discrimination, I found the headline and the hypothesis encouraging and really wish I could get behind it. However the evidence in this piece is lacking and unconvincing. He cherry picked a few examples of industries where people are required to pay their dues before the system allows them to make a contribution. In science one must earn a PhD as an ante into the game. Then they must earn a reputation and tenure before they are allowed to fully devote themselves to making major breakthroughs with their research. Early to mid 30's is roughly the age when one would be afforded that luxury, for the few who make it that far, so it makes perfect sense people would make their discoveries at 38. With film it's a similar story. Directors must first go to film school, then fetch coffee for directors, then work their way up the ranks on other peoples projects and then catch a series of extraordinary breaks before they are given the opportunity to direct other peoples ideas before they are finally given the freedom to truly do what they want. If they achieve that freedom by their 50's, they are one of the chosen few. Being an author works much the same way. Anybody with a text editor can write code that changes the World. So it's not the same. Does that mean young people are better at hacking than old people? No, not automatically. Nothing can be proven from all of these examples other than the relative barriers to entry in a given field.

_delirium 14y ago
I might just be missing something, but I don't really see the distinction between film, writing, and coding. Sure, there are power structures which expect certain things. But you can also ignore those power structures, and many people do. You can put code on github, or produce indie films. What's interesting is that even in that case people tend to be older in a number of fields. The film Primer, which was made on a $10,000 budget with no studio support, and is probably the best film about time-travel in existence, was made by Shane Carruth when he was 32— and not because he spent a decade going to film school or paying any other kinds of film-dues before that. With novels there is even less of a formal dues-paying apparatus. Nobody cares what degrees you have, and there is no way to move up in the ranks by spending 10 years making coffee for someone. Yet there are not many successful novelists in their 20s. Same with programming: you could be successful in your 20s, it's just uncommon.
anigbrowl 14y ago
With film it's a similar story. Directors must first go to film school, then fetch coffee for directors, then work their way up the ranks on other peoples projects and then catch a series of extraordinary breaks before they are given the opportunity to direct other peoples ideas before they are finally given the freedom to truly do what they want. If they achieve that freedom by their 50's, they are one of the chosen few. LOL no. I have worked in film for the last decade and I never went to film school. If you have talent and you're not an asshole, then it's one industry where you can pretty much write your own ticket just as fast as you can learn your craft. It helps, a lot, if you have or know people with money. But that's true of just about anything. Being an author works much the same way. To be an author you just start writing. You don't need to get a degree in English or a blessing from a senior writier. You are suffering from a bad case of a disease I am sometimes afflicted with, which is permission syndrome. You don't need other people's approval to be innovative. I find it particularly odd that you invoke film as an example, because I sometimes think if I had got into that field when I was younger and more brash (instead of balancing it with family considerations and some other factors) I think I'd probably have gone farther and faster.
rayiner 14y ago
You think people getting their phds in physics are just anteing up to the game? The fact of the matter is thaat innovation is cumulative, and it takes time and education to get up to speed on what's been done so you can incrementally imrpove it. That's where innovation comes from. Not some kid with a text editor. Look at it another way: where are the game changing algorithms coming from kids with no experience and just a text editor?
- TimPC 14y ago
  How much of the game changing behaviours in technology are coming from algorithms? To be honest, I think the biggest changes are coming from new data, and new social systems over which to build technologies.
aantix 14y ago
You really feel a strong sense of age discrimination? I feel it has to do with relevancy more than anything. I'm 35, a Rails consultant, several open source gems, speaker at the upcoming Rails Conf. I don't say this to toot my own horn, I say this because my extensive software engineering background enhances my interactions with the latest tool sets. I've seen a ton projects go incredibly right and wrong and want to share those opinions and offer guidance. Those hiring me are generally younger (and my boss) but my feeling is that they actually look up to me.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- wilfra 14y ago
  >>my extensive software engineering background Obviously that trumps everything. When I said I was looking to break in, I meant I have limited experience and skills.
  - aantix 14y ago
    I understand now. My best advice; create something open source. If front end is your strength, create a few sample layouts and provide the html/css. If Javascript is your thing, create a nice jquery widget that others could utilize. If Ruby is your thing, create a gem. Once you've done something like that, be sure to promote it. Post it to RubyFlow, the appropriate Subreddit (reddit.com/r/ruby, /r/javascript). Get a few "stars" for the library to show that others are interested in what you do. Lastly, be sure to include it on your resume. Top of your resume. Front and center.
    - wilfra 14y ago
      That's really helpful actually. Sounds like fun too, I have a few ideas already. Thanks!
RougeFemme 14y ago
I don't understand how being an author would work the same way. It's such a solitary pursuit. . .I don't understand how that would be dependent on fetching coffee, kissing rings, etc.

by wilfra 14y ago

_delirium 14y ago

I might just be missing something, but I don't really see the distinction between film, writing, and coding. Sure, there are power structures which expect certain things. But you can also ignore those power structures, and many people do. You can put code on github, or produce indie films. What's interesting is that even in that case people tend to be older in a number of fields. The film Primer, which was made on a $10,000 budget with no studio support, and is probably the best film about time-travel in existence, was made by Shane Carruth when he was 32— and not because he spent a decade going to film school or paying any other kinds of film-dues before that. With novels there is even less of a formal dues-paying apparatus. Nobody cares what degrees you have, and there is no way to move up in the ranks by spending 10 years making coffee for someone. Yet there are not many successful novelists in their 20s. Same with programming: you could be successful in your 20s, it's just uncommon.

anigbrowl 14y ago

With film it's a similar story. Directors must first go to film school, then fetch coffee for directors, then work their way up the ranks on other peoples projects and then catch a series of extraordinary breaks before they are given the opportunity to direct other peoples ideas before they are finally given the freedom to truly do what they want. If they achieve that freedom by their 50's, they are one of the chosen few. LOL no. I have worked in film for the last decade and I never went to film school. If you have talent and you're not an asshole, then it's one industry where you can pretty much write your own ticket just as fast as you can learn your craft. It helps, a lot, if you have or know people with money. But that's true of just about anything. Being an author works much the same way. To be an author you just start writing. You don't need to get a degree in English or a blessing from a senior writier. You are suffering from a bad case of a disease I am sometimes afflicted with, which is permission syndrome. You don't need other people's approval to be innovative. I find it particularly odd that you invoke film as an example, because I sometimes think if I had got into that field when I was younger and more brash (instead of balancing it with family considerations and some other factors) I think I'd probably have gone farther and faster.

rayiner 14y ago

You think people getting their phds in physics are just anteing up to the game? The fact of the matter is thaat innovation is cumulative, and it takes time and education to get up to speed on what's been done so you can incrementally imrpove it. That's where innovation comes from. Not some kid with a text editor. Look at it another way: where are the game changing algorithms coming from kids with no experience and just a text editor?

TimPC 14y ago
How much of the game changing behaviours in technology are coming from algorithms? To be honest, I think the biggest changes are coming from new data, and new social systems over which to build technologies.

aantix 14y ago

You really feel a strong sense of age discrimination? I feel it has to do with relevancy more than anything. I'm 35, a Rails consultant, several open source gems, speaker at the upcoming Rails Conf. I don't say this to toot my own horn, I say this because my extensive software engineering background enhances my interactions with the latest tool sets. I've seen a ton projects go incredibly right and wrong and want to share those opinions and offer guidance. Those hiring me are generally younger (and my boss) but my feeling is that they actually look up to me.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
wilfra 14y ago
>>my extensive software engineering background Obviously that trumps everything. When I said I was looking to break in, I meant I have limited experience and skills.
- aantix 14y ago
  I understand now. My best advice; create something open source. If front end is your strength, create a few sample layouts and provide the html/css. If Javascript is your thing, create a nice jquery widget that others could utilize. If Ruby is your thing, create a gem. Once you've done something like that, be sure to promote it. Post it to RubyFlow, the appropriate Subreddit (reddit.com/r/ruby, /r/javascript). Get a few "stars" for the library to show that others are interested in what you do. Lastly, be sure to include it on your resume. Top of your resume. Front and center.
  - wilfra 14y ago
    That's really helpful actually. Sounds like fun too, I have a few ideas already. Thanks!

RougeFemme 14y ago

I don't understand how being an author would work the same way. It's such a solitary pursuit. . .I don't understand how that would be dependent on fetching coffee, kissing rings, etc.