3 ms·

This study is nonsense. They ask nonsensical questions such as "Do you believe in science?". They are also using this fad protocol where they have someone (near

This study is nonsense. They ask nonsensical questions such as "Do you believe in science?". They are also using this fad protocol where they have someone (nearly always an 18-21 yr old white college student) read an article then test their opinions on things before and after, and then make grandiose claims regarding what that implies. This is not science, this is pop-psychology.

spindritf 14y ago
> They ask nonsensical questions such as "Do you believe in science?" Why is it nonsensical? Scientific method is a human invention, you can either believe in it, or not. The notion that a theory producing verifiable predictions is "true" is pure fiat. And then there's the whole idea that scientific discoveries, like laws of physics, are universal. Plenty of things to believe in.
- Alex3917 14y ago
  Science doesn't mean scientific method, and even if you were talking about the scientific method, what exactly does it mean to believe in it? Absolutely nothing. It's like asking "What do hindus believe?" and expecting to get an answer that isn't dumb.
- erichocean 14y ago
  The notion that a theory producing verifiable predictions is "true" is pure fiat. In which case, so is the meaning of the word "true". Not sure where you're going here, overloading the word "belief" doesn't help in this case, it obscures.
Wintamute 14y ago
I'm finding the (published and peer reviewed) "claims" of these post doctoral researchers somewhat more plausible than your comment on the internet I'm afraid, which I'm sorry to say is coming across as pretty weak.
gemlog 14y ago
Actually, this is a very good question. The vast majority of people have not done the experiments themselves. We actually do 'take it on faith' about a lot of things, like the earth is spherical, the earth travels around the sun, how gravity behaves etc. etc. We also think people from former times were idiots for believing the Sun went around the Earth -- even though both would appear identical to casual observation. We take it on faith from others in an appeal to authority. I, personally, have done very few basic experiments and my numbers differed wildly from the expected number (I suck at experiments). Science, natural philosophy, has completely divorced itself from the whole of philosophy and any other kind of thinking. Science is able to describe my friend's physical attributes in some detail, but science can not describe our friendship -- the faith and trust that goes into it doesn't fall within the purview of science, but it's nevertheless a reality that we all deal with. Equations are simply abstractions to model the real, physical world. When our mental shorthand substitutes those models for the real thing in our thinking we get into problems.
- Wintamute 14y ago
  > We also think people from former times were idiots for believing the Sun went around the Earth Erm, I don't think they were "idiots". And I'd say you're pretty safe to totally dismiss the opinion of somebody that does. Our understanding of the world, and the mental tools that we've developed to aid our understanding have developed in step. To call our forebears idiots for a misapprehension is to fail to comprehend the continuum of our advancement. > We take it on faith from others in an appeal to authority. You're certainly free to "take it on faith", but I wouldn't recommend it. Learn about science as much as you're able, and if possible try and understand things from first principles. You might find it rewarding to leave your "faith" at the door and get even a glimmer of the self-supporting system of tested knowledge that science provides. > Equations are simply abstractions to model the real, physical world. Equations and models maybe be abstractions but there's nothing simple about it, and they are capable representing profound truths related to the nature of the physical world. Those truths let us directly affect the real world in practical ways. I'm sorry but I find your statements a little wishy-washy!

spindritf 14y ago

> They ask nonsensical questions such as "Do you believe in science?" Why is it nonsensical? Scientific method is a human invention, you can either believe in it, or not. The notion that a theory producing verifiable predictions is "true" is pure fiat. And then there's the whole idea that scientific discoveries, like laws of physics, are universal. Plenty of things to believe in.

Alex3917 14y ago
Science doesn't mean scientific method, and even if you were talking about the scientific method, what exactly does it mean to believe in it? Absolutely nothing. It's like asking "What do hindus believe?" and expecting to get an answer that isn't dumb.
erichocean 14y ago
The notion that a theory producing verifiable predictions is "true" is pure fiat. In which case, so is the meaning of the word "true". Not sure where you're going here, overloading the word "belief" doesn't help in this case, it obscures.

Wintamute 14y ago

I'm finding the (published and peer reviewed) "claims" of these post doctoral researchers somewhat more plausible than your comment on the internet I'm afraid, which I'm sorry to say is coming across as pretty weak.

gemlog 14y ago

Actually, this is a very good question. The vast majority of people have not done the experiments themselves. We actually do 'take it on faith' about a lot of things, like the earth is spherical, the earth travels around the sun, how gravity behaves etc. etc. We also think people from former times were idiots for believing the Sun went around the Earth -- even though both would appear identical to casual observation. We take it on faith from others in an appeal to authority. I, personally, have done very few basic experiments and my numbers differed wildly from the expected number (I suck at experiments). Science, natural philosophy, has completely divorced itself from the whole of philosophy and any other kind of thinking. Science is able to describe my friend's physical attributes in some detail, but science can not describe our friendship -- the faith and trust that goes into it doesn't fall within the purview of science, but it's nevertheless a reality that we all deal with. Equations are simply abstractions to model the real, physical world. When our mental shorthand substitutes those models for the real thing in our thinking we get into problems.

Wintamute 14y ago
> We also think people from former times were idiots for believing the Sun went around the Earth Erm, I don't think they were "idiots". And I'd say you're pretty safe to totally dismiss the opinion of somebody that does. Our understanding of the world, and the mental tools that we've developed to aid our understanding have developed in step. To call our forebears idiots for a misapprehension is to fail to comprehend the continuum of our advancement. > We take it on faith from others in an appeal to authority. You're certainly free to "take it on faith", but I wouldn't recommend it. Learn about science as much as you're able, and if possible try and understand things from first principles. You might find it rewarding to leave your "faith" at the door and get even a glimmer of the self-supporting system of tested knowledge that science provides. > Equations are simply abstractions to model the real, physical world. Equations and models maybe be abstractions but there's nothing simple about it, and they are capable representing profound truths related to the nature of the physical world. Those truths let us directly affect the real world in practical ways. I'm sorry but I find your statements a little wishy-washy!