6 ms·

I think this is getting ridiculous, everything Steve Jobs did or said is getting blown out of proportions. Yeah, it was nice of him to let this guy take the de

by Nux 14y ago

I think this is getting ridiculous, everything Steve Jobs did or said is getting blown out of proportions. Yeah, it was nice of him to let this guy take the device to his friend, but let's not make him a saint or martyr or what not. Don't forget the poor bastards in China living on the edge of humanity to make the said devices..

kayoone 14y ago
This. Looking at this as a skeptic Apple user i cant help but think WTF ? Steve Jobs writes OK in an email and the worshippers go "OMG, HES SUCH A LEGEND, JUST 2 LETTERS".
- chris_wot 14y ago
  Except it wasn't just two letters, given how ballistic they went when the iPhone got leaked allowing him to carry the iPad with him was actually a significant risk. Steve Jobs was an arsehole. But the brevity of that message does not make it any less special to the one receiving it.
  - daigoba66 14y ago
    Except he was already allowed to carry it. He was just not allowed to show it to anyone.
    - foobar14 14y ago
      As someone who has had carry privileges for pre-release iOS devices, I can tell you that the rules are extremely strict, and breaking them generally results in being fired.
  - kayoone 14y ago
    As i understand it the guy was already allowed to carry the ipad around with him and given the fact that Jobs suffered from a similar illness i dont think it was such a big deal to him a couple of days before offical launch.
    - chris_wot 14y ago
      Well, I tend to disagree. It was a big deal to the one who got the email.
darkchasma 14y ago
Considering the culture of Apple, and how big of an issue this would be if it got out, this is huge. The poor bastards in China can choose to do something else. They are grown adults who can make their own life decisions. It's literally a thousand times safer than the fishermen and loggers here in the west.
- kayoone 14y ago
  "The poor bastards in China can choose to do something else." Thats not really true, China is not the US. Most of these workers have no other choice as to nearly work themselves to death to be able to support their families outside of the big cities. Its not really Apples problem though, as some other company would take their spot if they were not doing it, but that doesnt make it a good thing.
  - hpguy 14y ago
    bs. This makes it sound like these companies like Apple are harming the Chinese. I came from a developing country and I can tell you right now many people have to do much worse jobs to carve out some food for themselves and many others die from the lack of it. The moment you pull out jobs made possible by Apple and the likes, many will suffer.
  - darkchasma 14y ago
    It's a fact that no one forces a Chinese person to work at Foxconn. It's also a fact that many jobs like logging and fishing in the west are much much higher in fatalities each year. It's also a fact that dentists have a much much higher suicide rate than Foxconn employees, almost 7 times more from the numbers I was playing with last year. The situation in China isn't good, but it is what it is, and it's not Apples fault. And it most certainly isn't Jobs fault. Just about everything you consume is made in factories in China, but I only see this when Apple is in the conversation. It's simply illogical.
gambiting 14y ago
"Don't forget the poor bastards in China living on the edge of humanity" - to be honest, people earn as much per hour in the Foxconn factory as somebody earning minimum wage in my country(Poland) does. And that's within EU, with living costs much higher than in China. Yet nobody talks about "living on the edge of humanity".
- Nux 14y ago
  True - their wages keep increasing which is good, but think 2-3 years ago, they were probably much smaller. Think also of the work conditions, there's no "EU regulations" there... You are probably much better off in Poland.
  - gambiting 14y ago
    Oh yeah, absolutely. My point is, that when people in the US/UK read an article about workers in the Foxconn factory they feel sorry for people there, for earning "just" $3/hour. Well, I know people here who earn exactly that much or even less, and that's before taxes. And we're not Saudi Arabia either, our petrol is ~$8 per US Gallon, and people need to drive places to work. I know people who spend half of their daily wage just on transportation. So if they work 8 hours per day they work for 4 just to be there,without any profit.
    - Create 14y ago
      It is explicit western policy to use cheap eastern labor: "The cost [...] has been evaluated, taking into account realistic labor prices in different countries. The total cost is X (with a western equivalent value of Y) [where Y>X] ISBN: 9290831693 http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/494264 http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/494264 and to keep it this way: More than 98% of the ERC’s grants are awarded to scientists in the old EU-15, with mere crumbs thrown to newer member countries. http://www.nature.com/news/a-chance-to-drive-forward-europe-s-science-1.12628 http://www.nature.com/news/a-chance-to-drive-forward-europe-... Poland can at least have a little leverage, given its size -- but was hated for it (ie. agricultural pact negotiations)
kostya-kow 14y ago
The number of Apple fanboys on this website is extremely surprising, considering that Apple's attitude & products go against every true hacker's values and culture.
- bobwaycott 14y ago
  Ah, the true Scotsman steps to the floor.
welltoo 14y ago
I totally agree. But this got me thinking - this behavior occurs frequently in how we react to celebrities and leaders. As a species we seem to be wired to make gods of people we admire. Anything they touch or utter then becomes sacred and revered.

by Nux 14y ago

kayoone 14y ago

This. Looking at this as a skeptic Apple user i cant help but think WTF ? Steve Jobs writes OK in an email and the worshippers go "OMG, HES SUCH A LEGEND, JUST 2 LETTERS".

chris_wot 14y ago
Except it wasn't just two letters, given how ballistic they went when the iPhone got leaked allowing him to carry the iPad with him was actually a significant risk. Steve Jobs was an arsehole. But the brevity of that message does not make it any less special to the one receiving it.
- daigoba66 14y ago
  Except he was already allowed to carry it. He was just not allowed to show it to anyone.
  - foobar14 14y ago
    As someone who has had carry privileges for pre-release iOS devices, I can tell you that the rules are extremely strict, and breaking them generally results in being fired.
- kayoone 14y ago
  As i understand it the guy was already allowed to carry the ipad around with him and given the fact that Jobs suffered from a similar illness i dont think it was such a big deal to him a couple of days before offical launch.
  - chris_wot 14y ago
    Well, I tend to disagree. It was a big deal to the one who got the email.

darkchasma 14y ago

Considering the culture of Apple, and how big of an issue this would be if it got out, this is huge. The poor bastards in China can choose to do something else. They are grown adults who can make their own life decisions. It's literally a thousand times safer than the fishermen and loggers here in the west.

kayoone 14y ago
"The poor bastards in China can choose to do something else." Thats not really true, China is not the US. Most of these workers have no other choice as to nearly work themselves to death to be able to support their families outside of the big cities. Its not really Apples problem though, as some other company would take their spot if they were not doing it, but that doesnt make it a good thing.
- hpguy 14y ago
  bs. This makes it sound like these companies like Apple are harming the Chinese. I came from a developing country and I can tell you right now many people have to do much worse jobs to carve out some food for themselves and many others die from the lack of it. The moment you pull out jobs made possible by Apple and the likes, many will suffer.
- darkchasma 14y ago
  It's a fact that no one forces a Chinese person to work at Foxconn. It's also a fact that many jobs like logging and fishing in the west are much much higher in fatalities each year. It's also a fact that dentists have a much much higher suicide rate than Foxconn employees, almost 7 times more from the numbers I was playing with last year. The situation in China isn't good, but it is what it is, and it's not Apples fault. And it most certainly isn't Jobs fault. Just about everything you consume is made in factories in China, but I only see this when Apple is in the conversation. It's simply illogical.

gambiting 14y ago

"Don't forget the poor bastards in China living on the edge of humanity" - to be honest, people earn as much per hour in the Foxconn factory as somebody earning minimum wage in my country(Poland) does. And that's within EU, with living costs much higher than in China. Yet nobody talks about "living on the edge of humanity".

Nux 14y ago
True - their wages keep increasing which is good, but think 2-3 years ago, they were probably much smaller. Think also of the work conditions, there's no "EU regulations" there... You are probably much better off in Poland.
- gambiting 14y ago
  Oh yeah, absolutely. My point is, that when people in the US/UK read an article about workers in the Foxconn factory they feel sorry for people there, for earning "just" $3/hour. Well, I know people here who earn exactly that much or even less, and that's before taxes. And we're not Saudi Arabia either, our petrol is ~$8 per US Gallon, and people need to drive places to work. I know people who spend half of their daily wage just on transportation. So if they work 8 hours per day they work for 4 just to be there,without any profit.
  - Create 14y ago
    It is explicit western policy to use cheap eastern labor: "The cost [...] has been evaluated, taking into account realistic labor prices in different countries. The total cost is X (with a western equivalent value of Y) [where Y>X] ISBN: 9290831693 http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/494264 http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/494264 and to keep it this way: More than 98% of the ERC’s grants are awarded to scientists in the old EU-15, with mere crumbs thrown to newer member countries. http://www.nature.com/news/a-chance-to-drive-forward-europe-s-science-1.12628 http://www.nature.com/news/a-chance-to-drive-forward-europe-... Poland can at least have a little leverage, given its size -- but was hated for it (ie. agricultural pact negotiations)

kostya-kow 14y ago

The number of Apple fanboys on this website is extremely surprising, considering that Apple's attitude & products go against every true hacker's values and culture.

bobwaycott 14y ago
Ah, the true Scotsman steps to the floor.

welltoo 14y ago

I totally agree. But this got me thinking - this behavior occurs frequently in how we react to celebrities and leaders. As a species we seem to be wired to make gods of people we admire. Anything they touch or utter then becomes sacred and revered.