4 ms·

So...90% of people, give or take, are straight. Online dating is a clusterfuck of failure for straight people (ask anyone who's tried it, or the OP.) Online d

by ahh 14y ago

So...90% of people, give or take, are straight. Online dating is a clusterfuck of failure for straight people (ask anyone who's tried it, or the OP.) Online dating mostly works for gays and lesbians (you say so, I've seen the same from others.) And this guy is an idiot for trying to cater to the straight dating market? Precisely why?

djcapelis 14y ago
> So...90% of people, give or take, are straight. And a lot of those straight people may one day get involved with, have been involved with or may find themselves interested in someone who isn't straight. Many of whom are bi (or queer or whatever label) and most of whom do very very much care about being on a site that doesn't just serve straight people since they're open to dating both straight and non-straight folks. So if a site is inclusive, the straight dating pool should be larger too. Even if you decide the only thing you care about is straight people. > Online dating is a clusterfuck of failure for straight people (ask anyone who's tried it, or the OP.) Funny enough, I can just ask myself, since I did use online dating to date plenty of straight people before coming to my senses. Also, I have a fair number of straight friends, a lot of them appreciate OKC a lot and use it regularly with good results. The people I hear complaining about it most often are usually people who are just angry about the fact that they can't get dates... online or offline. It turns out there's a lot of frustrated straight people out there, but there's also just a lot of straight people out there. Assuming that online dating works magically well for gay/lesbian folks but doesn't for straight people seems like a really large leap to make and also seems really untrue from what I've heard. (I've known LGBT folks who haven't found online dating to be that great and I should also note that in general offline dating can be harder for LGBT folks (especially in some parts of the world) than for straight folks and online dating looks pretty good by comparison.) > And this guy is an idiot for trying to cater to the straight dating market? Precisely why? Well first off, I never actually said that. What I did say was that the way the site felt it felt like it was designed with a pretty narrow frame of how dating worked and that narrow frame was likely going to be a problem in a bunch of ways. For me, it doesn't work at all for a bunch of reasons. For others, it'll likely be something else. Look, if he was making a conscious design choice to only care about straight people, that's a thing you could do in a defensible way and you could probably design something pretty cool. But it didn't feel like a conscious decision, it felt like a decision that was made because someone didn't think through their problem well enough to even realize the things they didn't think about. And that's the real problem.
- ahh 14y ago
  > Assuming that online dating works magically well for gay/lesbian folks but doesn't for straight people seems like a really large leap to make and also seems really untrue from what I've heard Of course it isn't perfect for all of them, but it's a much less dysfunctional market than the straight one. Which means there's less of a business model in catering to gays and lesbians there (doubly true given that they're rare.) And yes, in theory, straight people can date bi people, but again, by not perfectly serving that bi market you cut off a tiny fraction of your clientele. Screw up the straight market and your site is doomed. Which should he focus on? > What I did say was that the way the site felt it felt like it was designed with a pretty narrow frame of how dating worked Yes, that's called "targeting a particular market."
  - deleted 14y ago
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- klipt 14y ago
  > Assuming that online dating works magically well for gay/lesbian folks but doesn't for straight people seems like a really large leap to make Not if you live in an area with skewed gender ratios. The thing that makes gay dating in such an environment "easy" compared to straight, is that supply (gay men) and demand (people looking for gay men) is essentially the same (plus or minus a handful of bisexuals). Whereas straight dating is fractured into two supplies and two demands, and straight women = demand for straight men straight men = demand for straight women What you really want is for the diagonals (supply and matched demand) to be equal, but they aren't in a lot of places.
- calinet6 14y ago
  > Also, I have a fair number of straight friends, a lot of them appreciate OKC a lot and use it regularly with good results. +1 for OkCupid working just fine for straight people. I have had great success (just hit 1 year with someone I met on OkCupid, truly a great girl). I know two marriages which were a result of OkCupid, one couple got married in France (not that it matters, they're just really cool). Most of the couples that met online that I know are quite good matches (IMHO quality > quantity anyway). > The people I hear complaining about it most often are usually people who are just angry about the fact that they can't get dates... online or offline. This is exactly it, in my opinion. OkCupid, and other dating sites, will help you meet more people. They will not magically improve your dating life. That's up to you, and it starts with improving yourself and your social skills outside of the dating world. You need to be an attractive person before you expect someone to want to be with you, and you have complete control over that; it has nothing to do with your looks and predestined characteristics, and everything to do with your attitude and personality. That may sound hokey, but it's entirely true. I think the site is a cool and fun way to meet people in a different way. I don't think it's ground-breaking or magically going to fix any dating problems, straight or gay. You might meet a few more people, but you'll still have to be actually interesting and good at dating if you want to go anywhere from there. In other words, it's like someone complaining about not being able to get anywhere in a car because they don't have a map, and making a car with five wheels and a musical horn instead. If you still don't have a map, it ain't gonna help you.
steveklabnik 14y ago
There's a lot more to life than 'straight' or 'gay,' just so you know. Beyond that, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientat... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United... > According to a Williams Institute review conducted in April 2011, approximately 3.5% of American adults identify themselves as lesbian, gay or bisexual, ... However, a significantly higher percentage acknowledge having same-sex attraction without identifying as LGB. This makes it difficult to accurately record the demographics of LGBT people in the U.S.
jmtame 14y ago
Yep, Grindr notoriously has had great success with their app for non-straight people. It's something unique to that market, but when you try to speed up the dating process for straight people, it has always failed. Why? Because you're missing identity. Girls are still scared to meet strangers off the Internet when you speed the process up. And that's totally legit. I even worry about it sometimes, and I'm a guy. If you meet someone from OkCupid, and something happens, you have no way of knowing who is on the other end. You just don't know their true identity. So it's a huge risk. To clarify, this is just me and another guy working on this. We don't get to spend 100% of our time writing code. We have to put a lot of thought into what to build first, before we build it. Social dating is more of a psychology game than anything. You can throw features at people, but unless they make the user comfortable and are highly engaging, it's all a waste of time. We're not trying to target straight people, we just haven't had the bandwidth to accomodate everyone else. We'll get there eventually though.
safrolic 14y ago
Because he, as you are, is reasoning in terms of market which can only leads to failure to address the needs of the people using the service. Remove the economist goggles, do without the gender distinction and start dealing with human beings and you'll be on the road for a successful dating service.

by ahh 14y ago

djcapelis 14y ago

> So...90% of people, give or take, are straight. And a lot of those straight people may one day get involved with, have been involved with or may find themselves interested in someone who isn't straight. Many of whom are bi (or queer or whatever label) and most of whom do very very much care about being on a site that doesn't just serve straight people since they're open to dating both straight and non-straight folks. So if a site is inclusive, the straight dating pool should be larger too. Even if you decide the only thing you care about is straight people. > Online dating is a clusterfuck of failure for straight people (ask anyone who's tried it, or the OP.) Funny enough, I can just ask myself, since I did use online dating to date plenty of straight people before coming to my senses. Also, I have a fair number of straight friends, a lot of them appreciate OKC a lot and use it regularly with good results. The people I hear complaining about it most often are usually people who are just angry about the fact that they can't get dates... online or offline. It turns out there's a lot of frustrated straight people out there, but there's also just a lot of straight people out there. Assuming that online dating works magically well for gay/lesbian folks but doesn't for straight people seems like a really large leap to make and also seems really untrue from what I've heard. (I've known LGBT folks who haven't found online dating to be that great and I should also note that in general offline dating can be harder for LGBT folks (especially in some parts of the world) than for straight folks and online dating looks pretty good by comparison.) > And this guy is an idiot for trying to cater to the straight dating market? Precisely why? Well first off, I never actually said that. What I did say was that the way the site felt it felt like it was designed with a pretty narrow frame of how dating worked and that narrow frame was likely going to be a problem in a bunch of ways. For me, it doesn't work at all for a bunch of reasons. For others, it'll likely be something else. Look, if he was making a conscious design choice to only care about straight people, that's a thing you could do in a defensible way and you could probably design something pretty cool. But it didn't feel like a conscious decision, it felt like a decision that was made because someone didn't think through their problem well enough to even realize the things they didn't think about. And that's the real problem.

ahh 14y ago
> Assuming that online dating works magically well for gay/lesbian folks but doesn't for straight people seems like a really large leap to make and also seems really untrue from what I've heard Of course it isn't perfect for all of them, but it's a much less dysfunctional market than the straight one. Which means there's less of a business model in catering to gays and lesbians there (doubly true given that they're rare.) And yes, in theory, straight people can date bi people, but again, by not perfectly serving that bi market you cut off a tiny fraction of your clientele. Screw up the straight market and your site is doomed. Which should he focus on? > What I did say was that the way the site felt it felt like it was designed with a pretty narrow frame of how dating worked Yes, that's called "targeting a particular market."
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
klipt 14y ago
> Assuming that online dating works magically well for gay/lesbian folks but doesn't for straight people seems like a really large leap to make Not if you live in an area with skewed gender ratios. The thing that makes gay dating in such an environment "easy" compared to straight, is that supply (gay men) and demand (people looking for gay men) is essentially the same (plus or minus a handful of bisexuals). Whereas straight dating is fractured into two supplies and two demands, and straight women = demand for straight men straight men = demand for straight women What you really want is for the diagonals (supply and matched demand) to be equal, but they aren't in a lot of places.
calinet6 14y ago
> Also, I have a fair number of straight friends, a lot of them appreciate OKC a lot and use it regularly with good results. +1 for OkCupid working just fine for straight people. I have had great success (just hit 1 year with someone I met on OkCupid, truly a great girl). I know two marriages which were a result of OkCupid, one couple got married in France (not that it matters, they're just really cool). Most of the couples that met online that I know are quite good matches (IMHO quality > quantity anyway). > The people I hear complaining about it most often are usually people who are just angry about the fact that they can't get dates... online or offline. This is exactly it, in my opinion. OkCupid, and other dating sites, will help you meet more people. They will not magically improve your dating life. That's up to you, and it starts with improving yourself and your social skills outside of the dating world. You need to be an attractive person before you expect someone to want to be with you, and you have complete control over that; it has nothing to do with your looks and predestined characteristics, and everything to do with your attitude and personality. That may sound hokey, but it's entirely true. I think the site is a cool and fun way to meet people in a different way. I don't think it's ground-breaking or magically going to fix any dating problems, straight or gay. You might meet a few more people, but you'll still have to be actually interesting and good at dating if you want to go anywhere from there. In other words, it's like someone complaining about not being able to get anywhere in a car because they don't have a map, and making a car with five wheels and a musical horn instead. If you still don't have a map, it ain't gonna help you.

steveklabnik 14y ago

There's a lot more to life than 'straight' or 'gay,' just so you know. Beyond that, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientat... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United... > According to a Williams Institute review conducted in April 2011, approximately 3.5% of American adults identify themselves as lesbian, gay or bisexual, ... However, a significantly higher percentage acknowledge having same-sex attraction without identifying as LGB. This makes it difficult to accurately record the demographics of LGBT people in the U.S.

jmtame 14y ago

Yep, Grindr notoriously has had great success with their app for non-straight people. It's something unique to that market, but when you try to speed up the dating process for straight people, it has always failed. Why? Because you're missing identity. Girls are still scared to meet strangers off the Internet when you speed the process up. And that's totally legit. I even worry about it sometimes, and I'm a guy. If you meet someone from OkCupid, and something happens, you have no way of knowing who is on the other end. You just don't know their true identity. So it's a huge risk. To clarify, this is just me and another guy working on this. We don't get to spend 100% of our time writing code. We have to put a lot of thought into what to build first, before we build it. Social dating is more of a psychology game than anything. You can throw features at people, but unless they make the user comfortable and are highly engaging, it's all a waste of time. We're not trying to target straight people, we just haven't had the bandwidth to accomodate everyone else. We'll get there eventually though.

safrolic 14y ago

Because he, as you are, is reasoning in terms of market which can only leads to failure to address the needs of the people using the service. Remove the economist goggles, do without the gender distinction and start dealing with human beings and you'll be on the road for a successful dating service.