3 ms·

Here's what I'm getting at: if we were all more social about online dating, it'd suck a lot less. A majority of problems go away with online dating sites when y

by dkarl 14y ago

Here's what I'm getting at: if we were all more social about online dating, it'd suck a lot less. A majority of problems go away with online dating sites when you make it social. Trying to make this sound cool by using the word "social" doesn't stop this from being the classic awkward kid's lament: "If only people were straightforward about mating and romance! If only there wasn't this forest of doublespeak and taboos surrounding sex! If only people stopped being petty and competitive and just openly admitted their desires and insecurities! We'd all be so much better off (me especially.)"

benched 14y ago
You've written the awkward kid character to sound enlightened.
- dkarl 14y ago
  He is, in a useless kind of way. It's one thing to think this way and another thing to propose that everyone voluntarily adopt social mores that put them at a disadvantage relative to the people who continue to use the same old stratagems. For something like that you need a social movement organized around a moral cause, with constant moral vigilance against cheaters (who would otherwise prosper, and might prosper even in spite of such vigilance.) That's unlikely enough, but it gets worse. Skill at organizing and inspiring a social movement is, by my guess at least, highly correlated with skill at succeeding sexually under the current social conventions. The people who are highly motivated to change current social mores around dating are exactly the people who are least likely to inspire a following. Take it from someone who wasted his first five years after puberty learning the hard way :-|
  - mst 14y ago
    Being open and honest about my desires and insecurities has worked out very well for me; the trick was learning to present it as confidence in who I am rather than an apologia for what I am not. Attitude is often everything during early stage interactions when you're both rapidly trying to size the other person up. Then again, my taste in partners' personalities probably selects for people where that -will- work out well for me. Which for me is obviously a feature, but means I in no way am suggesting that it would work well universally.
eavc 14y ago
I like the way you've characterized the awkward kid's lament -- I think you nailed it. However, this seems more like making online dating (which generally includes many attempts at making things more straightforward) into something that more closely mirrors the way many people find dates offline, through being introduced and endorsed by friends. As a former awkward kid, I can't imagine that making things more social would be seen as favorable by someone who struggles with socialization and maybe has fewer or less charming friends.
klipt 14y ago
Interestingly though, most of the relationship advice I hear is "communicate honestly!" Would you say that's a bad idea in general, or maybe good for long-term relationships but bad when you're in the earlier stages of dating?
eli_gottlieb 14y ago
Hmmm.... I want to voice a modified version of it. The real trouble is not the forest of doublespeak and taboos surrounding sex. Sex is, so to speak, the easy part. Once you find a compatible partner with whom you can communicate solidly about your relationship (see below), your meatware substrates come pre-programmed for the sex act itself ;-). The problem is the forest of doublespeak and taboos surrounding basic human fragility. There's almost a bizarre, hypocritical handshake protocol here: to meet someone and make friends with them, you generally need to appear well-put-together, sane, and just generally competent at life -- all without seeming smug or overconfident or douchey, either. This mostly involves scrubbing off the parts of your self-projection to others that don't fit what other people think of as "competent at life". Problem is, deepening and maintaining a relationship, romantic or otherwise, consists precisely of letting your guard down and showing your baggage. Your positive baggage too, not just the negative. Among more reticent social groups or cultures, people rarely manage it at all. They're never willing to let their guard down or exchange baggage, so they go through life with a series of shallow "friendships" and "relationships" that keep seeming Just Fine until they abruptly end because there wasn't a strong enough bond to take even a feather's new weight. Then you hit some arbitrary "getting older" age, look back, and realize you spent your youth fucking around, have few friends, and no marriage. Whoops, time for the Biological and Parental Expectations Clocks and the sudden run to the altar! In another couple years, time for a divorce! Source: I have fairly close ties to most of my friends and I've been with my fiancee for going on five years now.

by dkarl 14y ago

benched 14y ago

You've written the awkward kid character to sound enlightened.

dkarl 14y ago
He is, in a useless kind of way. It's one thing to think this way and another thing to propose that everyone voluntarily adopt social mores that put them at a disadvantage relative to the people who continue to use the same old stratagems. For something like that you need a social movement organized around a moral cause, with constant moral vigilance against cheaters (who would otherwise prosper, and might prosper even in spite of such vigilance.) That's unlikely enough, but it gets worse. Skill at organizing and inspiring a social movement is, by my guess at least, highly correlated with skill at succeeding sexually under the current social conventions. The people who are highly motivated to change current social mores around dating are exactly the people who are least likely to inspire a following. Take it from someone who wasted his first five years after puberty learning the hard way :-|
- mst 14y ago
  Being open and honest about my desires and insecurities has worked out very well for me; the trick was learning to present it as confidence in who I am rather than an apologia for what I am not. Attitude is often everything during early stage interactions when you're both rapidly trying to size the other person up. Then again, my taste in partners' personalities probably selects for people where that -will- work out well for me. Which for me is obviously a feature, but means I in no way am suggesting that it would work well universally.

eavc 14y ago

I like the way you've characterized the awkward kid's lament -- I think you nailed it. However, this seems more like making online dating (which generally includes many attempts at making things more straightforward) into something that more closely mirrors the way many people find dates offline, through being introduced and endorsed by friends. As a former awkward kid, I can't imagine that making things more social would be seen as favorable by someone who struggles with socialization and maybe has fewer or less charming friends.

klipt 14y ago

Interestingly though, most of the relationship advice I hear is "communicate honestly!" Would you say that's a bad idea in general, or maybe good for long-term relationships but bad when you're in the earlier stages of dating?

eli_gottlieb 14y ago

Hmmm.... I want to voice a modified version of it. The real trouble is not the forest of doublespeak and taboos surrounding sex. Sex is, so to speak, the easy part. Once you find a compatible partner with whom you can communicate solidly about your relationship (see below), your meatware substrates come pre-programmed for the sex act itself ;-). The problem is the forest of doublespeak and taboos surrounding basic human fragility. There's almost a bizarre, hypocritical handshake protocol here: to meet someone and make friends with them, you generally need to appear well-put-together, sane, and just generally competent at life -- all without seeming smug or overconfident or douchey, either. This mostly involves scrubbing off the parts of your self-projection to others that don't fit what other people think of as "competent at life". Problem is, deepening and maintaining a relationship, romantic or otherwise, consists precisely of letting your guard down and showing your baggage. Your positive baggage too, not just the negative. Among more reticent social groups or cultures, people rarely manage it at all. They're never willing to let their guard down or exchange baggage, so they go through life with a series of shallow "friendships" and "relationships" that keep seeming Just Fine until they abruptly end because there wasn't a strong enough bond to take even a feather's new weight. Then you hit some arbitrary "getting older" age, look back, and realize you spent your youth fucking around, have few friends, and no marriage. Whoops, time for the Biological and Parental Expectations Clocks and the sudden run to the altar! In another couple years, time for a divorce! Source: I have fairly close ties to most of my friends and I've been with my fiancee for going on five years now.