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I think you're right about a lot of the problems with dating websites - I wrote about this recently too here (http://www.zacharyalberico.net/blog/dating-website

I think you're right about a lot of the problems with dating websites - I wrote about this recently too here (http://www.zacharyalberico.net/blog/dating-websites/ http://www.zacharyalberico.net/blog/dating-websites/). I remember checking your site out when you posted it and it's nice to see someone trying something actually new, but I feel like this concept doesn't solve the common problems and adds some new ones. Women will still be over messaged and men are still under messaged. People still ignore profiles in favor of photos - what does this change? Now you need your friends to create a profile for you (granted at least it's not of the essay variety) and you need your friends to try and find people for you? I have a hard time seeing anyone doing that considering it's a relatively boring process with little return (the problem with the current sites). I also think women are even less likely to use it considering your own point about them not wanting to involve their own friends. I would think people would also want to play a role in the selection considering it's a pretty subjective/personal thing. Definitely awesome to see something new though and hopefully you prove me wrong and it works better than I suspect.

deleted 14y ago
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jmtame 14y ago
Women will still be over messaged and men are still under messaged. People still ignore profiles in favor of photos - what does this change? Aren't you more interested in reading what somebody's friend has to say about them rather than what they're saying about themselves? Also, we have Facebook accounts (100+ friends required to join) which are not easy to replicate and we can rate limit. On OkCupid, the worst that happens is they ban you for spamming, and then you come back under a different username. Sure, girls might recognize the same photos, but you're fundamentally a free radical in the system. Now you need your friends to create a profile for you (granted at least it's not of the essay variety) and you need your friends to try and find people for you? I have a hard time seeing anyone doing that considering it's a relatively boring process with little return (the problem with the current sites). It relies on reciprocity, and it's actually fun when you try it out. If you're commenting on your friends' profiles, they'll naturally want to comment on yours. All of the comments on my profile happened not because I asked my friends to do that, but because I started out by commenting on theirs. With the stigma, it's largely an issue skewed by age. More women in their 30s using dating sites socially, the sites just aren't designed to be social.
- fossuser 14y ago
  The facebook reputation barrier is a good idea - should set a bar for the low end of quality. I see your point about the reciprocity, makes sense and I wouldn't worry about the stigma - if your site catches on the stigma will just die faster. I'm not sure I'd be more receptive to what a friend has to say about someone, but that's generally because what anyone says doesn't matter when the sent/received message ratio is so bad (which is what I tried to fix with the marking idea). Cool though - will definitely keep following it to see how it goes.
  - jmtame 14y ago
    Is there a way I can e-mail you? Don't see your contact info on your blog or HN profile.
    - fossuser 14y ago
      I should probably fix that - sent an email your way.
  - nawitus 14y ago
    >The facebook reputation barrier is a good idea - should set a bar for the low end of quality. Wait, are people with lots friend "high quality people" or "low quality people"?
    - fossuser 14y ago
      I meant quality as a reference to spam and spam like accounts. If you can't easily just create a new account or create multiple accounts then that eliminates those kinds of issues.
- thaumasiotes 14y ago
  Just as a point of reference, I have 28 facebook friends, and I've been thinking about trimming that number down... but I'm pretty sure I exist.
jmtame 14y ago
I have to disagree that colleges are the best place to start, from your blog. We actually started all of this at Stanford, talking directly to fraternity and sorority presidents. They all sounded excited when we said we'd taken them out for drinks to get their thoughts, but when it came time to pull the trigger and sign up, they wouldn't do it. Why? Because the Greeks have it perfectly. They're basically paying fees for students to put together their social life for them. So actually, I just caught myself here: college students might be a good starting point, but Greeks are the absolute worst starting point. They don't need what we're building. And most college students I think would be reluctant to sign up anyway, they have their classes and student clubs they can join. They have a lot of opportunities. But the problem becomes very apparent as soon as you move and graduate. You don't know anyone. You can't date people from work because that's shitting where you eat. You avoid talking to girls at the gym for the same reason. You're left with the bar scene, which isn't too bad. It still feels a lot more natural for me to meet someone in a bar than online, even though I've met several girls from OkCupid. Your point about mutual interest addresses the pain of rejection, and agree with you on that. Let's Date is a great mobile app that addresses this perfectly. I guess Tinder is in the same boat, but neither of those actually worked for me. How many people did you meet from using it? I only met one girl from Let's Date, the rest I assume are fake or ended up deleting the app shortly after downloading it. How was the checkin experiment you ran?
- fossuser 14y ago
  Yeah I don't think greeks are a good place to start because they probably don't need it, but I'd imagine other college kids would use it especially because they're busy with classes and other things. Definitely agree that college kids have more opportunities than new grads though to meet people. I think the matching idea (tinder/let's date) is a good one, but like you I noticed the problem seems to be that girls don't actually use it - which is critical since otherwise nothing happens. Never got a chance to run the checkit experiment because I ended up graduated early to move out here for a job. I do think meeting people out (at bars and things) is critical and the dating sites now don't take advantage of that - the check into places idea. Dating sites set the bar low for messaging which contributes to the over messaging problem, there is a high social barrier to go up and talk to someone or ask someone out in person. The social barrier is actually a good thing because it means that if you go and talk/ask you already have a large advantage since most people were already self selected out. I think something that helps break the ice or helps with this meeting process in a specific place would be valuable. Otherwise I think most dating websites are shitty for heterosexual men in their early to mid twenties.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

jmtame 14y ago

Women will still be over messaged and men are still under messaged. People still ignore profiles in favor of photos - what does this change? Aren't you more interested in reading what somebody's friend has to say about them rather than what they're saying about themselves? Also, we have Facebook accounts (100+ friends required to join) which are not easy to replicate and we can rate limit. On OkCupid, the worst that happens is they ban you for spamming, and then you come back under a different username. Sure, girls might recognize the same photos, but you're fundamentally a free radical in the system. Now you need your friends to create a profile for you (granted at least it's not of the essay variety) and you need your friends to try and find people for you? I have a hard time seeing anyone doing that considering it's a relatively boring process with little return (the problem with the current sites). It relies on reciprocity, and it's actually fun when you try it out. If you're commenting on your friends' profiles, they'll naturally want to comment on yours. All of the comments on my profile happened not because I asked my friends to do that, but because I started out by commenting on theirs. With the stigma, it's largely an issue skewed by age. More women in their 30s using dating sites socially, the sites just aren't designed to be social.

fossuser 14y ago
The facebook reputation barrier is a good idea - should set a bar for the low end of quality. I see your point about the reciprocity, makes sense and I wouldn't worry about the stigma - if your site catches on the stigma will just die faster. I'm not sure I'd be more receptive to what a friend has to say about someone, but that's generally because what anyone says doesn't matter when the sent/received message ratio is so bad (which is what I tried to fix with the marking idea). Cool though - will definitely keep following it to see how it goes.
- jmtame 14y ago
  Is there a way I can e-mail you? Don't see your contact info on your blog or HN profile.
  - fossuser 14y ago
    I should probably fix that - sent an email your way.
- nawitus 14y ago
  >The facebook reputation barrier is a good idea - should set a bar for the low end of quality. Wait, are people with lots friend "high quality people" or "low quality people"?
  - fossuser 14y ago
    I meant quality as a reference to spam and spam like accounts. If you can't easily just create a new account or create multiple accounts then that eliminates those kinds of issues.
thaumasiotes 14y ago
Just as a point of reference, I have 28 facebook friends, and I've been thinking about trimming that number down... but I'm pretty sure I exist.

jmtame 14y ago

I have to disagree that colleges are the best place to start, from your blog. We actually started all of this at Stanford, talking directly to fraternity and sorority presidents. They all sounded excited when we said we'd taken them out for drinks to get their thoughts, but when it came time to pull the trigger and sign up, they wouldn't do it. Why? Because the Greeks have it perfectly. They're basically paying fees for students to put together their social life for them. So actually, I just caught myself here: college students might be a good starting point, but Greeks are the absolute worst starting point. They don't need what we're building. And most college students I think would be reluctant to sign up anyway, they have their classes and student clubs they can join. They have a lot of opportunities. But the problem becomes very apparent as soon as you move and graduate. You don't know anyone. You can't date people from work because that's shitting where you eat. You avoid talking to girls at the gym for the same reason. You're left with the bar scene, which isn't too bad. It still feels a lot more natural for me to meet someone in a bar than online, even though I've met several girls from OkCupid. Your point about mutual interest addresses the pain of rejection, and agree with you on that. Let's Date is a great mobile app that addresses this perfectly. I guess Tinder is in the same boat, but neither of those actually worked for me. How many people did you meet from using it? I only met one girl from Let's Date, the rest I assume are fake or ended up deleting the app shortly after downloading it. How was the checkin experiment you ran?

fossuser 14y ago
Yeah I don't think greeks are a good place to start because they probably don't need it, but I'd imagine other college kids would use it especially because they're busy with classes and other things. Definitely agree that college kids have more opportunities than new grads though to meet people. I think the matching idea (tinder/let's date) is a good one, but like you I noticed the problem seems to be that girls don't actually use it - which is critical since otherwise nothing happens. Never got a chance to run the checkit experiment because I ended up graduated early to move out here for a job. I do think meeting people out (at bars and things) is critical and the dating sites now don't take advantage of that - the check into places idea. Dating sites set the bar low for messaging which contributes to the over messaging problem, there is a high social barrier to go up and talk to someone or ask someone out in person. The social barrier is actually a good thing because it means that if you go and talk/ask you already have a large advantage since most people were already self selected out. I think something that helps break the ice or helps with this meeting process in a specific place would be valuable. Otherwise I think most dating websites are shitty for heterosexual men in their early to mid twenties.