5 ms·

Sounds like an opportunity for a "bitcoin credit card" or "bitcoin charge card" where a trusted third party maintains complete control.

by niggler 14y ago

waterlesscloud 14y ago
Perhaps YC could fund such a startup.
- niggler 14y ago
  Coinbase doesn't fit that bill, if that's what you are pointing to.
  - waterlesscloud 14y ago
    Coinbase is a bitcoin payment processor. It addresses exactly those issues.
    - niggler 14y ago
      Original issue: "However, the problem is that the amount of time it takes for a transaction to become "verified," i.e. be part of the official block chain, can take up to 10 minutes." https://coinbase.com/merchants https://coinbase.com/merchants : "Confirmed in 1 hour" Underlying issue not addressed
      - waterlesscloud 14y ago
        "Arrives instantly" Which is faster than any credit card gives money to a merchant. As is a one hour final confirmation.
        patmcc 14y ago
        Credit card companies do confirmation in seconds - the fact that the actual money isn't moved for a month isn't as important as the fact that it will show up, with high certainty.
        waterlesscloud 14y ago
        I think there's some confusion here over what 'confirmation' means in this context. What Coinbase (and other bitcoin payment processors) offer is instant confirmation that the customer has the funds available and that the payment is allocated to you. This is all a credit card is 'confirming' for you in seconds as well. It's the same thing. "Payment is available and is coming your way". What's different is that Coinbase is saying that within an hour, the funds are 'confirmed' as yours. They are available to you in your wallet. You can do with them as you will. You literally have money in the bank. Now, converting those funds to USD and having them show up in your bank account takes a few days, but that's the legacy banking system that's at fault there. If you want to spend the Bitcoins at Bitcoins, however, you have only to wait an hour. The difference between waiting a month for your money and waiting an hour is absolutely tremendous. The fact that our business ecosystem has evolved to work with the delay doesn't mean that removing the delay is not desirable. Removing that economic friction is revolutionary. It can facilitate new business models and accelerate the pace of commerce. That's the real importance of Bitcoin, or of whatever cryptocurrencies follow on after it. They reduce friction and increase economic velocity.
- chollida1 14y ago
  The original problem: > However, the problem is that the amount of time it takes for a transaction to become "verified," i.e. be part of the official block chain, can take up to 10 minutes. coinbase is pretty cool but fails completely at solving the posted problem. The soonest I've seen payments settle is in about an hour.
dragontamer 14y ago
These already exist. The problem is that all the advantages of Bitcoin is now lost, and you have transferred control of Bitcoin to the Bitcoin bank. For example: you can gather Flexcoins, which allow instantaneous transfers and so forth. But by doing so, you no longer have Bitcoins. You only have Flexcoins, and if the Flexcoin bank goes under... you lose all of your bitcoins. IE: Using Flexcoins (or any other form of Bitcoin bank) completely defeats the purpose of Bitcoin.
- niggler 14y ago
  "you have transferred control of Bitcoin to the Bitcoin bank." This exists now with charge cards. You load up a card, and you bear risk that the company could go under. "IE: Using Flexcoins (or any other form of Bitcoin bank) completely defeats the purpose of Bitcoin." I'm not talking about an alternative coin. I'm talking about something akin to what happens now with CHIPS and FedWire, where the dollars are shuffled at a later date but the transactions are approved before it happens.
- baddox 14y ago
  > The problem is that all the advantages of Bitcoin is now lost, and you have transferred control of Bitcoin to the Bitcoin bank. That isn't a loss of the advantages of bitcoin, because you got to choose which organization to trust, if any. With government currencies, you don't get to choose.
  - dragontamer 14y ago
    What is preventing me from converting my USD into Euros or Yen? I can choose whichever Government / Central bank fits me the best.
    - baddox 14y ago
      Sure, but you can also choose bitcoin, which has no government or central bank, if that fits you best.
    - rishimoko 14y ago
jacoblyles 14y ago
More people should implement and accept Green Addresses[1], and that would largely solve the issue. [1]https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Green_address https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Green_address
- benwoody 14y ago
  I'm really rooting for Coinbase to take off. I hope they implement this, as well as a better iOS app.

Sounds like an opportunity for a "bitcoin credit card" or "bitcoin charge card" where a trusted third party maintains complete control.

by niggler 14y ago

Sounds like an opportunity for a "bitcoin credit card" or "bitcoin charge card" where a trusted third party maintains complete control.

waterlesscloud 14y ago

Perhaps YC could fund such a startup.

niggler 14y ago
Coinbase doesn't fit that bill, if that's what you are pointing to.
- waterlesscloud 14y ago
  Coinbase is a bitcoin payment processor. It addresses exactly those issues.
  - niggler 14y ago
    Original issue: "However, the problem is that the amount of time it takes for a transaction to become "verified," i.e. be part of the official block chain, can take up to 10 minutes." https://coinbase.com/merchants https://coinbase.com/merchants : "Confirmed in 1 hour" Underlying issue not addressed
    - waterlesscloud 14y ago
      "Arrives instantly" Which is faster than any credit card gives money to a merchant. As is a one hour final confirmation.
      - patmcc 14y ago
        Credit card companies do confirmation in seconds - the fact that the actual money isn't moved for a month isn't as important as the fact that it will show up, with high certainty.
        waterlesscloud 14y ago
        I think there's some confusion here over what 'confirmation' means in this context. What Coinbase (and other bitcoin payment processors) offer is instant confirmation that the customer has the funds available and that the payment is allocated to you. This is all a credit card is 'confirming' for you in seconds as well. It's the same thing. "Payment is available and is coming your way". What's different is that Coinbase is saying that within an hour, the funds are 'confirmed' as yours. They are available to you in your wallet. You can do with them as you will. You literally have money in the bank. Now, converting those funds to USD and having them show up in your bank account takes a few days, but that's the legacy banking system that's at fault there. If you want to spend the Bitcoins at Bitcoins, however, you have only to wait an hour. The difference between waiting a month for your money and waiting an hour is absolutely tremendous. The fact that our business ecosystem has evolved to work with the delay doesn't mean that removing the delay is not desirable. Removing that economic friction is revolutionary. It can facilitate new business models and accelerate the pace of commerce. That's the real importance of Bitcoin, or of whatever cryptocurrencies follow on after it. They reduce friction and increase economic velocity.
chollida1 14y ago
The original problem: > However, the problem is that the amount of time it takes for a transaction to become "verified," i.e. be part of the official block chain, can take up to 10 minutes. coinbase is pretty cool but fails completely at solving the posted problem. The soonest I've seen payments settle is in about an hour.

dragontamer 14y ago

These already exist. The problem is that all the advantages of Bitcoin is now lost, and you have transferred control of Bitcoin to the Bitcoin bank. For example: you can gather Flexcoins, which allow instantaneous transfers and so forth. But by doing so, you no longer have Bitcoins. You only have Flexcoins, and if the Flexcoin bank goes under... you lose all of your bitcoins. IE: Using Flexcoins (or any other form of Bitcoin bank) completely defeats the purpose of Bitcoin.

niggler 14y ago
"you have transferred control of Bitcoin to the Bitcoin bank." This exists now with charge cards. You load up a card, and you bear risk that the company could go under. "IE: Using Flexcoins (or any other form of Bitcoin bank) completely defeats the purpose of Bitcoin." I'm not talking about an alternative coin. I'm talking about something akin to what happens now with CHIPS and FedWire, where the dollars are shuffled at a later date but the transactions are approved before it happens.
baddox 14y ago
> The problem is that all the advantages of Bitcoin is now lost, and you have transferred control of Bitcoin to the Bitcoin bank. That isn't a loss of the advantages of bitcoin, because you got to choose which organization to trust, if any. With government currencies, you don't get to choose.
- dragontamer 14y ago
  What is preventing me from converting my USD into Euros or Yen? I can choose whichever Government / Central bank fits me the best.
  - baddox 14y ago
    Sure, but you can also choose bitcoin, which has no government or central bank, if that fits you best.
  - rishimoko 14y ago

jacoblyles 14y ago

More people should implement and accept Green Addresses[1], and that would largely solve the issue. [1]https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Green_address https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Green_address

benwoody 14y ago
I'm really rooting for Coinbase to take off. I hope they implement this, as well as a better iOS app.