2 ms·

@jader I've got over 8000M in Canabalt, a personal high score on my ouya, much higher than I've ever got on my Nexus 4. If there was significant lag I don't thi

@jader I've got over 8000M in Canabalt, a personal high score on my ouya, much higher than I've ever got on my Nexus 4. If there was significant lag I don't think that'd be possible. I've talked to the developers of the ouya port and they're baffled by these reports as well. People subconsciously looking for something negative? No clue.

jader201 14y ago
Yeah, I sometimes think sensitivity to input lag is very subjective. Also, another factor is the TV and/or receiver (if they have Ouya going through one). But surely Polygon editors would factor this in? I'm not a game developer (or hardware expert), but are there not tests that can be performed to capture input lag? At least that way it could be ruled in/out at the hardware/software level, assuming you have a baseline reference of any input lag from TV/receiver.
- mey 14y ago
  John Carmack has done a bit of research on this, he has a good explication on SuperUser http://superuser.com/a/419167 http://superuser.com/a/419167 Edit: Also on his blog http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2013/02/22/latency-mitigation-strategies/ http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2013/02/22/latency-mitigation-... tl;dr High speed video camera capturing button input and screen in the same frame to measure the complete cycle. Diagnosing why is harder.
podperson 14y ago
Doesn't HDMI give you the new and wonderful possibility of display lag? (This is particularly pronounced when playing games using iOS devices, especially older iOS devices, with AirPlay.) Because the time between a frame being rendered and appearing on screen can increase, you are reacting slowly to events on the device which you perceive as control lag when in fact it's display lag.
- mortenjorck 14y ago
  Compliant HDMI shouldn't introduce any latency itself. It's just a digital signal, no different in principle than the signal from a wired game controller. Where latency can creep in is a TV's image processing algorithms – a color adjustment algorithm might add a few milliseconds, an edge enhancement might add a few more; a 120hz motion compensation system will add a lot more. Most TVs will allow these to be disabled (often in a specifically labeled "game mode") but a few may inexplicably not allow them all to be disabled, hardwired for a certain degree of latency. AirPlay, on the other hand, introduces a lot of latency because it's compressing the image prior to transport and uncompressing it on the other end. This generally introduces significantly more lag than any TV image processing.
  - podperson 14y ago
    Here's an article on how to detect and measure the effect I'm talking about. http://www.pcworld.com/article/183928/how_to_find_and_fix_input_lag_in_your_HDTV_or_monitor.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/183928/how_to_find_and_fix_in... It's a consequence of using framebuffers in the display device. I mentioed Airport because it exaggerates the effect, but any digital display will likely introduce s little extra lag.
    - maxerickson 14y ago
      I don't think mortenjorck particularly disagrees with you. I think they are reading [HDMI] specifically as [HDMI] rather than [The use of an external display, via HDMI].
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- podperson 14y ago
  Sorry I can't reply to you directly, but: EXACTLY. HDMI encodes frames and pipes them to the TV which has to render them. There's no guarantee this will be instantaneous (indeed it's virtually guaranteed that it won't).
b0b_d0e 14y ago
I know other people have already talked about screen lag, but I just wanted to mention that this is well known in the Super Smash Brothers community. LCD/HD tvs are not usually used in Super Smash brothers tournaments because of the noticeable lag. http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Lag#Screen_Lag http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Lag#Screen_Lag While its possible the controller lags, it seems a little more likely that the lag is caused from the transition from the iPad screen to a lagging LCD screen.

jader201 14y ago

Yeah, I sometimes think sensitivity to input lag is very subjective. Also, another factor is the TV and/or receiver (if they have Ouya going through one). But surely Polygon editors would factor this in? I'm not a game developer (or hardware expert), but are there not tests that can be performed to capture input lag? At least that way it could be ruled in/out at the hardware/software level, assuming you have a baseline reference of any input lag from TV/receiver.

mey 14y ago
John Carmack has done a bit of research on this, he has a good explication on SuperUser http://superuser.com/a/419167 http://superuser.com/a/419167 Edit: Also on his blog http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2013/02/22/latency-mitigation-strategies/ http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2013/02/22/latency-mitigation-... tl;dr High speed video camera capturing button input and screen in the same frame to measure the complete cycle. Diagnosing why is harder.

podperson 14y ago

Doesn't HDMI give you the new and wonderful possibility of display lag? (This is particularly pronounced when playing games using iOS devices, especially older iOS devices, with AirPlay.) Because the time between a frame being rendered and appearing on screen can increase, you are reacting slowly to events on the device which you perceive as control lag when in fact it's display lag.

mortenjorck 14y ago
Compliant HDMI shouldn't introduce any latency itself. It's just a digital signal, no different in principle than the signal from a wired game controller. Where latency can creep in is a TV's image processing algorithms – a color adjustment algorithm might add a few milliseconds, an edge enhancement might add a few more; a 120hz motion compensation system will add a lot more. Most TVs will allow these to be disabled (often in a specifically labeled "game mode") but a few may inexplicably not allow them all to be disabled, hardwired for a certain degree of latency. AirPlay, on the other hand, introduces a lot of latency because it's compressing the image prior to transport and uncompressing it on the other end. This generally introduces significantly more lag than any TV image processing.
- podperson 14y ago
  Here's an article on how to detect and measure the effect I'm talking about. http://www.pcworld.com/article/183928/how_to_find_and_fix_input_lag_in_your_HDTV_or_monitor.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/183928/how_to_find_and_fix_in... It's a consequence of using framebuffers in the display device. I mentioed Airport because it exaggerates the effect, but any digital display will likely introduce s little extra lag.
  - maxerickson 14y ago
    I don't think mortenjorck particularly disagrees with you. I think they are reading [HDMI] specifically as [HDMI] rather than [The use of an external display, via HDMI].
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
podperson 14y ago
Sorry I can't reply to you directly, but: EXACTLY. HDMI encodes frames and pipes them to the TV which has to render them. There's no guarantee this will be instantaneous (indeed it's virtually guaranteed that it won't).

b0b_d0e 14y ago

I know other people have already talked about screen lag, but I just wanted to mention that this is well known in the Super Smash Brothers community. LCD/HD tvs are not usually used in Super Smash brothers tournaments because of the noticeable lag. http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Lag#Screen_Lag http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Lag#Screen_Lag While its possible the controller lags, it seems a little more likely that the lag is caused from the transition from the iPad screen to a lagging LCD screen.