3 ms·

MRA isn't misanthropy. What's wrong with you??

by stesch 14y ago

lifeisstillgood 14y ago
Men's rights? Come on, a man in modern America and you feel oppressed?
- stesch 14y ago
  You assume men don't need rights. And you assume everybody here is a man, living in America. (I guess you mean USA.)
  - illuminate 14y ago
    I'm more worried about, even today, men placing strict gender roles on me and the associated baggage than I am at women for "taking away my rights". There are certainly strange expectations that guys have to deal with. The problem here is that they aren't challenging the norms because they're too "pussy" or "gay" and as far as I've seen, the MRAs are too wrapped up in their warm cloak of machismo and self-defeating. There are crazy women, as there are crazy men. Systemically, guys are holding themselves back, and the way established law and custom are has more to do with irresponsible and/or overbearing guys in power in the past than it does some sort of gynocracy.
- mtrimpe 14y ago
  I'm an ardent supporter of women's rights, but I'm also a supporter of the men's rights movement. The (valid part of the) men's right movement is mostly concerned with men who: * have been raped or faced domestic abuse, but are met with ridicule when filing charges * have lost custody of their children to unstable / irresponsible mothers I fully agree that women's rights is several orders of magnitude more important / severe, but that doesn't make these men's plight inconsequential either. This is not an either-or situation. What is a problem though, and what was raised in the article, is the large mass of mysoginists that are essentially hiding behind that same men's right banner.
  - electronvolt 14y ago
    Some of those issues are also addressed/worked on by feminist groups, particularly the rape one. Almost every survivor counseling organization I know of provides services to men as well as women. I'd also characterize most of those groups as feminist. (In fact, it's the ones that don't provide services to men that I'd often characterize as not feminist and that get the most feminist criticism, such as the services offered by most universities). My experience has been that the Men's Rights Movement's good parts are often what is basically non-radical feminist activism repackaged, and its bad parts are reprehensible. (Note: radical feminism is things like the SCUM manifesto; most feminism isn't particularly radical) The article does make the important point that there aren't a lot of places for (straight) men to discuss cultural ideas of masculinity and its possible ill effects. (In my experience, gay men often have a better understanding of male dynamics than straight men, and there's more of a cultural discourse about masculinity in some parts of gay culture.)
    - mtrimpe 14y ago
      I wasn't aware of the feminist's support for these men's rights issues, which is admirable and good to know. As far as your last comment is concerned; my support for women's rights comes out of having been gay and now being somewhere on the bi/genderqueer continuum so I can definitely relate to that. If you're interested, this speech by Gary Carter captures it more beautifully than I've ever been able to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PFULOQUp9-k http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P...
  - illuminate 14y ago
    "The (valid part of the) men's right movement is mostly concerned with men who: * have been raped or faced domestic abuse, but are met with ridicule when filing charges * have lost custody of their children to unstable / irresponsible mothers" And attacking women for both of these is folly. That's why MRAs are not taken seriously, because they misdirect their (legitimate in the aformentioned context) concerns.

MRA isn't misanthropy. What's wrong with you??

by stesch 14y ago

MRA isn't misanthropy. What's wrong with you??

lifeisstillgood 14y ago

Men's rights? Come on, a man in modern America and you feel oppressed?

stesch 14y ago
You assume men don't need rights. And you assume everybody here is a man, living in America. (I guess you mean USA.)
- illuminate 14y ago
  I'm more worried about, even today, men placing strict gender roles on me and the associated baggage than I am at women for "taking away my rights". There are certainly strange expectations that guys have to deal with. The problem here is that they aren't challenging the norms because they're too "pussy" or "gay" and as far as I've seen, the MRAs are too wrapped up in their warm cloak of machismo and self-defeating. There are crazy women, as there are crazy men. Systemically, guys are holding themselves back, and the way established law and custom are has more to do with irresponsible and/or overbearing guys in power in the past than it does some sort of gynocracy.
mtrimpe 14y ago
I'm an ardent supporter of women's rights, but I'm also a supporter of the men's rights movement. The (valid part of the) men's right movement is mostly concerned with men who: * have been raped or faced domestic abuse, but are met with ridicule when filing charges * have lost custody of their children to unstable / irresponsible mothers I fully agree that women's rights is several orders of magnitude more important / severe, but that doesn't make these men's plight inconsequential either. This is not an either-or situation. What is a problem though, and what was raised in the article, is the large mass of mysoginists that are essentially hiding behind that same men's right banner.
- electronvolt 14y ago
  Some of those issues are also addressed/worked on by feminist groups, particularly the rape one. Almost every survivor counseling organization I know of provides services to men as well as women. I'd also characterize most of those groups as feminist. (In fact, it's the ones that don't provide services to men that I'd often characterize as not feminist and that get the most feminist criticism, such as the services offered by most universities). My experience has been that the Men's Rights Movement's good parts are often what is basically non-radical feminist activism repackaged, and its bad parts are reprehensible. (Note: radical feminism is things like the SCUM manifesto; most feminism isn't particularly radical) The article does make the important point that there aren't a lot of places for (straight) men to discuss cultural ideas of masculinity and its possible ill effects. (In my experience, gay men often have a better understanding of male dynamics than straight men, and there's more of a cultural discourse about masculinity in some parts of gay culture.)
  - mtrimpe 14y ago
    I wasn't aware of the feminist's support for these men's rights issues, which is admirable and good to know. As far as your last comment is concerned; my support for women's rights comes out of having been gay and now being somewhere on the bi/genderqueer continuum so I can definitely relate to that. If you're interested, this speech by Gary Carter captures it more beautifully than I've ever been able to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PFULOQUp9-k http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P...
- illuminate 14y ago
  "The (valid part of the) men's right movement is mostly concerned with men who: * have been raped or faced domestic abuse, but are met with ridicule when filing charges * have lost custody of their children to unstable / irresponsible mothers" And attacking women for both of these is folly. That's why MRAs are not taken seriously, because they misdirect their (legitimate in the aformentioned context) concerns.