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What this fails to mention is the _way_ that Adria handled it. If she hadn't conducted a massively public shaming exercise, rather than saying "Shut up, I'm tr

What this fails to mention is the _way_ that Adria handled it. If she hadn't conducted a massively public shaming exercise, rather than saying "Shut up, I'm trying to watch a conference and listening to your dick jokes isn't helping." and then escalated to the conference organisers if that hadn't helped, and _then_ escalated to a public name/shame if _that_ hadn't helped, then I think people would be much happier with the situation.

parfe 14y ago
No, the problem is that instead of addressing the actual issues at hand you deflect by taking issue with how a a single member of a minority group attempted to address the issue. You are trying to make the issue about you. How a member of your majority and in power group was wronged by a member of the minority. To be clear: You are trying to change the debate from "How do we solve gender issues in our community?" to "I don't like how someone tried to solve an issue one time. BLAH BLAH BLAH the larger picture BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH"
- AndrewDucker 14y ago
  This isn't a debate about how we solve the issue in our community. It's a debate about this particular event. And that's what I'm contributing to.
  - Ilmesnkie_Jones 14y ago
    The article was trying to place the whole affair within a larger context. It wasn't trying to pick apart Richard's behavior but reflect how the reaction to her behavior is based on ingrained norms within the community and society at large. You don't have to agree with what Richard's did to have that discussion.
    - AndrewDucker 14y ago
      Except it didn't place the _whole_ affair within a larger context. It places a one-sided version of it within a larger context. I think the larger context is important (and the way that Adriana was attacked was vile). But that does not make her original behaviour ok.
- lovehashbrowns 14y ago
  Nobody tried to change the debate from "How do we solve gender issues in our community?" to "I don't like how someone tried to solve an issue one time." We cannot do both? We cannot discuss gender inequalities in tech AND say that the way Adria Richards handled the situation was not correct? And you're basically saying that we can't criticize a woman's behavior without taking attention away from the sexism debate.
Joeboy 14y ago
Oh come on, she tweeted a photo. I don't think it was the right thing to do, but she didn't actually invade Poland or anything. You can murder people and get less backlash than she's had.
- padraigm 14y ago
  And, importantly, much of the backlash has been quite sexist. Ultimately that's a huge problem in the tech community - when a man does something inappropriate it's seen as evidence that he's an asshole, but when a woman does something inappropriate it's seen as evidence that women are assholes.
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  - jeltz 14y ago
    Not really. At least here on HN there was very little sexist backlash, most just concluded that she was an asshole.
    - DanBC 14y ago
      "Very little" is provably wrong. All the threads had vile posts that were an embarrassment to the community. Luckily the very worst (which also tended to be from very new accounts) tended to be downvoted to hellban status, but there were some deeply unpleasant comments that got voted up.
    - padraigm 14y ago
      DanBC is right about the comments here on HN, but I was talking about the response from the "tech community" at large in my original comment anyway.
- dfxm12 14y ago
  FWIW, I get the same type backlash (although in less volume) from people I beat online in Street Fighter III.
Anechoic 14y ago
What this fails to mention is the _way_ that Adria handled it Because in this context, it's irrelevant. Let's say Richards was completely and indisputably in the wrong (eg the guys were just sitting there minding their own business and had not made any response) - would that have justified the rape and death threats?
- danielweber 14y ago
  There are many issues at play. Anyone who wants to discuss only a single one of them is going to think that someone else who wants to only discuss a different single one of them is "off-topic," "derailing," or "that's not important."
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  I think most reasonable people would conclude that these threats were not justified, I didn't see any comments supporting these on HN. If the identities of the people making these threats was known they would likely be facing criminal charges and held in public contempt. Problem is that we don't know their identities because they are anonymous trolls hiding behind tor or proxies so any attempts to identify them as members of a particular group is speculation. So that makes it difficult to condemn these people in better terms than "internet trolls are assholes" which everybody already thinks.

parfe 14y ago

No, the problem is that instead of addressing the actual issues at hand you deflect by taking issue with how a a single member of a minority group attempted to address the issue. You are trying to make the issue about you. How a member of your majority and in power group was wronged by a member of the minority. To be clear: You are trying to change the debate from "How do we solve gender issues in our community?" to "I don't like how someone tried to solve an issue one time. BLAH BLAH BLAH the larger picture BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH"

AndrewDucker 14y ago
This isn't a debate about how we solve the issue in our community. It's a debate about this particular event. And that's what I'm contributing to.
- Ilmesnkie_Jones 14y ago
  The article was trying to place the whole affair within a larger context. It wasn't trying to pick apart Richard's behavior but reflect how the reaction to her behavior is based on ingrained norms within the community and society at large. You don't have to agree with what Richard's did to have that discussion.
  - AndrewDucker 14y ago
    Except it didn't place the _whole_ affair within a larger context. It places a one-sided version of it within a larger context. I think the larger context is important (and the way that Adriana was attacked was vile). But that does not make her original behaviour ok.
lovehashbrowns 14y ago
Nobody tried to change the debate from "How do we solve gender issues in our community?" to "I don't like how someone tried to solve an issue one time." We cannot do both? We cannot discuss gender inequalities in tech AND say that the way Adria Richards handled the situation was not correct? And you're basically saying that we can't criticize a woman's behavior without taking attention away from the sexism debate.

Joeboy 14y ago

Oh come on, she tweeted a photo. I don't think it was the right thing to do, but she didn't actually invade Poland or anything. You can murder people and get less backlash than she's had.

padraigm 14y ago
And, importantly, much of the backlash has been quite sexist. Ultimately that's a huge problem in the tech community - when a man does something inappropriate it's seen as evidence that he's an asshole, but when a woman does something inappropriate it's seen as evidence that women are assholes.
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- jeltz 14y ago
  Not really. At least here on HN there was very little sexist backlash, most just concluded that she was an asshole.
  - DanBC 14y ago
    "Very little" is provably wrong. All the threads had vile posts that were an embarrassment to the community. Luckily the very worst (which also tended to be from very new accounts) tended to be downvoted to hellban status, but there were some deeply unpleasant comments that got voted up.
  - padraigm 14y ago
    DanBC is right about the comments here on HN, but I was talking about the response from the "tech community" at large in my original comment anyway.
dfxm12 14y ago
FWIW, I get the same type backlash (although in less volume) from people I beat online in Street Fighter III.

Anechoic 14y ago

What this fails to mention is the _way_ that Adria handled it Because in this context, it's irrelevant. Let's say Richards was completely and indisputably in the wrong (eg the guys were just sitting there minding their own business and had not made any response) - would that have justified the rape and death threats?

danielweber 14y ago
There are many issues at play. Anyone who wants to discuss only a single one of them is going to think that someone else who wants to only discuss a different single one of them is "off-topic," "derailing," or "that's not important."
jiggy2011 14y ago
I think most reasonable people would conclude that these threats were not justified, I didn't see any comments supporting these on HN. If the identities of the people making these threats was known they would likely be facing criminal charges and held in public contempt. Problem is that we don't know their identities because they are anonymous trolls hiding behind tor or proxies so any attempts to identify them as members of a particular group is speculation. So that makes it difficult to condemn these people in better terms than "internet trolls are assholes" which everybody already thinks.