5 ms·

Uhh.. India buys so many tanks, aircrafts, etc. because politicians here take a healthy cut on those deals. There's no strategy involved, it's pure business. Al

by ashray 14y ago

Uhh.. India buys so many tanks, aircrafts, etc. because politicians here take a healthy cut on those deals. There's no strategy involved, it's pure business. Also, pointing at Pakistan as the enemy works because of long term cultural issues. The one time that the navy chief mentioned China's a worry - everyone scoffed at him and he was almost fired. Source: My father was a senior air force pilot and was being coerced into buying obsolete airplanes from a dealer since the home minister's son was involved in making the deal.

vicks711 14y ago
I know your father. He is the only honest officer in the Indian Air Force. Since you are his son salute to you too!
rikacomet 14y ago
sorry no offence, but that story sounds like less believable to me for some reasons. 1. airplane deals are not cleared by anyone but the senior most of general rank airforce officials, so can you please mention your father's exact rank level again? 2. Home minister's son you say? which home minister if you can mention? 3. If my father was a such a senior air force pilot, I would rather not be even mentioning this, because this is a accusation, and it really means a great deal to do so without proof. A family member of a senior airforce official, sounds a lot unbelievable to me. Sorry, but I can't believe your 'sources'
- mseebach 14y ago
  So the exact details of the OPs story doesn't add up. Maybe it's because they're lying, maybe they're being deliberately vague as pr. your third point. It certainly is plausible, the Indian government is well known to be highly corrupt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India#Politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India#Politics
  - rikacomet 14y ago
    What I mean is that, I do not deny corruption prevalent in India, but, what I do question is his 'sources'. This is an opinion, not a question. I found it doubtful, thus I said. I felt it was worth mentioning, because my family is related to the armed forces as well, so anyone wrongfully hiding behind a fake persona putting a bad light on armed forces is also hurting me.
    - ashray 14y ago
      Fake persona ? I'm a regular at HN and use my real name here. Hardly a fake persona. You seem to be taking a rather emotional standpoint here for no valid reason.
      - rikacomet 14y ago
        I know you are a real person (duh!), but somehow I'm having doubts about the rest of it. Maybe I'm just being extra sceptical, but it would really help if you can prove your dad is really what you say he is.
        analog 14y ago
        For rather obvious reasons he's not likely to want to provide proof. Please stop asking for it.
        RestlessMind 14y ago
        If you know anything about how things work in India, you won't ask him to give concrete proof about dad. For the safety of his dad and other family members, he is right to keep details secret.
- fakeer 14y ago
  1. It has to be cleared by pilots, senior pilots in that list even clerical level staff come at places. If some one with expertise objects then that objection is either bought, or objector is coerced or sometimes eliminated (esp.) if the deal runs quite long into millions. This 'clearing by expertise/experts' thing was explained by a friend of mine currently posted at Yelahanka AFS. 2. I would like to know this too. Chidambaram has a son who is a crook and I am sure the father is one too. Not sure he was the one mentioned. 3. Well, this sounds credible(your counter-point I mean) and worrying :-)
- aangjie 14y ago
  >because this is a accusation, and it really means a great deal to do so without proof. This is part of the attitude that gets on my nerves really. Public media is not a court of law. And that was by design that goes along with democracy. I won't deny the design has its problems, but i am more interested in seeing how the design can be improved. If you don't want to examine, just ignore the accusation.
- dsfasfasf 14y ago
  You are complaining a bit too much. Why?
- a9entroy 14y ago
  Maybe you're a journalist or something. Obviously he can't give away the exact details dude.
- ashray 14y ago
  I'd rather not share any details even though my father passed away earlier this month. Rest assured, when I say senior pilot, I mean at the highest echelons of the forces. Yes, General Rank level indeed. Maybe you don't know how deals work but they often require a recommendation from the people who are going to actually USE the equipment. I don't see why you seem to be so upset about this. It's hardly a secret in India. I didn't say that my father agreed to be party to this, and neither do many other senior military officials, but this is a dirty game and no one denies that. As for you not believing my sources, frankly, I don't really care. For reference, this was within the last 10 years.
  - magicmike1123 14y ago
    I up-voted your parent and would down vote you if I could, here is why (a) Defense deals are not the domain of the home minster, their oversight is the responsibility of the defense ministry. (b) There have been 2 home minsters in the last 10 years Shivraj Patil P Chidambaram Shivraj Patil and his children, Shailesh Patil and Archana Patil have faced regular accusations of corruption. The reports of their corruption are in the domain of land acquisition and obtaining permits for business that they would not otherwise have likely received. This was largely done using their fathers name and listing their home address as the home ministers residence in New Delhi. But neither of them are involved in the business of arms. Chidambaram has 1 son Karti Chidambaram, who likewise has benefited from his fathers association. Chief among which was accusations that he received 5% stake in Aircel as kickbacks for other approvals from his father. Quote from wikipedia "according to The Pioneer and India Today reports, documents show that approval to the foreign direct investment (FDI) proposal was indeed delayed by about 7 months by P Chidambaram.". This was during the time that Chidambaram held the position of Finance minister. It would be likely that Karti benefited later from his father holding the home portfolio in the same manner as Shivraj Patil's children. (c) From your own admission in this response, your father was to only make recommendations for purchase of equipment which is vastly different from have the authority to make purchase, which is what you claim in the first. I take it from the 2 comments that he recommended their purchase. Your comments show poor form for claiming something that is clearly not true. (d) Last but not the least, your father spoke about matters that he had no reason to be addressing outside of his work place. The exceptions could be his role as a whistle blower which is definitely not the case here. As someone whose father worked as director of DRDO organization and had purchasing authority for research equipment for a lab that employed 100000+ employees and 1000+ scientists, I can assure you my father never even in passing mentioned any work related information outside of work for obvious security implications. EDIT: edited for formatting.
- RestlessMind 14y ago
  "less believable"?? Clearly, you are not familiar with India. In fact, if there is a huge arms deal for defense forces (or huge deal for anything), you can bet there is involvement of at least one politician to take his cut.
jacquesm 14y ago
That's an excellent idea, have the military bring their own tanks from home and air-force pilots to own their own jets. That will teach them to be more careful with the gear too!
manojlds 14y ago
Did you read the whole article? The corruption in big military deals is mentioned as a big worrying factor.

by ashray 14y ago

vicks711 14y ago

I know your father. He is the only honest officer in the Indian Air Force. Since you are his son salute to you too!

rikacomet 14y ago

sorry no offence, but that story sounds like less believable to me for some reasons. 1. airplane deals are not cleared by anyone but the senior most of general rank airforce officials, so can you please mention your father's exact rank level again? 2. Home minister's son you say? which home minister if you can mention? 3. If my father was a such a senior air force pilot, I would rather not be even mentioning this, because this is a accusation, and it really means a great deal to do so without proof. A family member of a senior airforce official, sounds a lot unbelievable to me. Sorry, but I can't believe your 'sources'

mseebach 14y ago
So the exact details of the OPs story doesn't add up. Maybe it's because they're lying, maybe they're being deliberately vague as pr. your third point. It certainly is plausible, the Indian government is well known to be highly corrupt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India#Politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India#Politics
- rikacomet 14y ago
  What I mean is that, I do not deny corruption prevalent in India, but, what I do question is his 'sources'. This is an opinion, not a question. I found it doubtful, thus I said. I felt it was worth mentioning, because my family is related to the armed forces as well, so anyone wrongfully hiding behind a fake persona putting a bad light on armed forces is also hurting me.
  - ashray 14y ago
    Fake persona ? I'm a regular at HN and use my real name here. Hardly a fake persona. You seem to be taking a rather emotional standpoint here for no valid reason.
    - rikacomet 14y ago
      I know you are a real person (duh!), but somehow I'm having doubts about the rest of it. Maybe I'm just being extra sceptical, but it would really help if you can prove your dad is really what you say he is.
      - analog 14y ago
        For rather obvious reasons he's not likely to want to provide proof. Please stop asking for it.
      - RestlessMind 14y ago
        If you know anything about how things work in India, you won't ask him to give concrete proof about dad. For the safety of his dad and other family members, he is right to keep details secret.
fakeer 14y ago
1. It has to be cleared by pilots, senior pilots in that list even clerical level staff come at places. If some one with expertise objects then that objection is either bought, or objector is coerced or sometimes eliminated (esp.) if the deal runs quite long into millions. This 'clearing by expertise/experts' thing was explained by a friend of mine currently posted at Yelahanka AFS. 2. I would like to know this too. Chidambaram has a son who is a crook and I am sure the father is one too. Not sure he was the one mentioned. 3. Well, this sounds credible(your counter-point I mean) and worrying :-)
aangjie 14y ago
>because this is a accusation, and it really means a great deal to do so without proof. This is part of the attitude that gets on my nerves really. Public media is not a court of law. And that was by design that goes along with democracy. I won't deny the design has its problems, but i am more interested in seeing how the design can be improved. If you don't want to examine, just ignore the accusation.
dsfasfasf 14y ago
You are complaining a bit too much. Why?
a9entroy 14y ago
Maybe you're a journalist or something. Obviously he can't give away the exact details dude.
ashray 14y ago
I'd rather not share any details even though my father passed away earlier this month. Rest assured, when I say senior pilot, I mean at the highest echelons of the forces. Yes, General Rank level indeed. Maybe you don't know how deals work but they often require a recommendation from the people who are going to actually USE the equipment. I don't see why you seem to be so upset about this. It's hardly a secret in India. I didn't say that my father agreed to be party to this, and neither do many other senior military officials, but this is a dirty game and no one denies that. As for you not believing my sources, frankly, I don't really care. For reference, this was within the last 10 years.
- magicmike1123 14y ago
  I up-voted your parent and would down vote you if I could, here is why (a) Defense deals are not the domain of the home minster, their oversight is the responsibility of the defense ministry. (b) There have been 2 home minsters in the last 10 years Shivraj Patil P Chidambaram Shivraj Patil and his children, Shailesh Patil and Archana Patil have faced regular accusations of corruption. The reports of their corruption are in the domain of land acquisition and obtaining permits for business that they would not otherwise have likely received. This was largely done using their fathers name and listing their home address as the home ministers residence in New Delhi. But neither of them are involved in the business of arms. Chidambaram has 1 son Karti Chidambaram, who likewise has benefited from his fathers association. Chief among which was accusations that he received 5% stake in Aircel as kickbacks for other approvals from his father. Quote from wikipedia "according to The Pioneer and India Today reports, documents show that approval to the foreign direct investment (FDI) proposal was indeed delayed by about 7 months by P Chidambaram.". This was during the time that Chidambaram held the position of Finance minister. It would be likely that Karti benefited later from his father holding the home portfolio in the same manner as Shivraj Patil's children. (c) From your own admission in this response, your father was to only make recommendations for purchase of equipment which is vastly different from have the authority to make purchase, which is what you claim in the first. I take it from the 2 comments that he recommended their purchase. Your comments show poor form for claiming something that is clearly not true. (d) Last but not the least, your father spoke about matters that he had no reason to be addressing outside of his work place. The exceptions could be his role as a whistle blower which is definitely not the case here. As someone whose father worked as director of DRDO organization and had purchasing authority for research equipment for a lab that employed 100000+ employees and 1000+ scientists, I can assure you my father never even in passing mentioned any work related information outside of work for obvious security implications. EDIT: edited for formatting.
RestlessMind 14y ago
"less believable"?? Clearly, you are not familiar with India. In fact, if there is a huge arms deal for defense forces (or huge deal for anything), you can bet there is involvement of at least one politician to take his cut.

jacquesm 14y ago

That's an excellent idea, have the military bring their own tanks from home and air-force pilots to own their own jets. That will teach them to be more careful with the gear too!

manojlds 14y ago

Did you read the whole article? The corruption in big military deals is mentioned as a big worrying factor.