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Women were being very clearly, intentionally objectified with the "booth babe" thing. Now, rather than something obnoxious and sexually overt, we have somethin

Women were being very clearly, intentionally objectified with the "booth babe" thing. Now, rather than something obnoxious and sexually overt, we have something that I'd call far worse in its subtlety: Using women for exactly the same purpose but in a much more approachable, casual, and probably effectively interactive way. How did this happen? I seriously doubt it's because girls in bikinis stopped being effective. But when you can't get away with sexualized advertisement without being martyred, you're going to look for similarly effective marketing that won't offend the people throwing the stones, and in my opinion they've done exactly what we should have expected in this situation. I'm not saying it's right or that women shouldn't expect to be treated as equals. I am saying that the tech community (and several others) have tried and are trying so hard to reject sex and sexuality and any application of it that might possibly offend someone that we're finally making it worse. Before it was just an obnoxious inability to be comfortable with ourselves. Now that we've gotten to the point where everyone knows how prudish and hyperconservative we are, they've also figured out how to keep marketing to us effectively without offending our delicate sensibilities. And we're still upset. It's a shame that so many men have such a hard time conducting themselves well in mixed professional company. It's also a shame that we are so utterly unable to be men and women without pigeonholing ourselves and harassing each other over it. It's a sad situation.

Kequc 14y ago
I think the major source of OPs discomfort at the conference was that she is surrounding herself with gamers. I'm just saying gamers spend time playing video games they could be spending interacting with other human beings, going out. Two things that many gamers significantly undervalue. So they get weird. I mean I don't really know how else to put it. No group of grown ups standing around at a conference would notice the number of "booth babes" and then get upset. Something which happened to gamers a little while ago. So a bunch of pretty girls who probably didn't like being there in those places very much to begin with lost their jobs. The hyper insecurity of attendees at these conferences and previously mentioned "weirdness" are contributors. Many, from my research of the opposition to "booth babes" are insecure that they are not regarded as adults due to "booth babes" being around. Even some people in this thread have stated that they don't like being marketed to as knuckle draggers. Well. The gaming industry is largely populated by adolescents, that is why the marketing that is chosen gets chosen. If they were adult enough to not mind the presence of "booth babes" and just enjoy themselves at the conferences, investigating the technologies they are interested in things could be a lot better. But they're not. Things are weird. Interactions are stressful and now marketers need to awkwardly conceal their attempts at marketing.
- bluehat 14y ago
  I actually generally really enjoy the company of gamers. They may be funny people, but most of the time they're good people.
stcredzero 14y ago
> we have something that I'd call far worse in its subtlety: Using women for exactly the same purpose Let's get this straight: It's not a sin. Objectification is just a particular functional state. There is only a problem when there is a systemic imbalance that either consistently robs a particular group of agency. There is nothing inherently wrong with objectification. When you are being a spokesperson, you are voluntarily being objectified. You have basically taken on the role of an information appliance -- one with a friendly face and engaging manner, hopefully. This is fine. What would be wrong is if everyone treated you this way depending on some trait, like your gender or race. (Which is what happens when people assume female developers are paid shills or when people assume that the females in the current context are just decorative.) The notion that "Objectification = Sin" is onerous nonsense. Denizens of a complex multicultural world need to turn on the brains and understand functional implications. We should stop using labels and tribal knee-jerks. Our new world is too complicated for those old heuristics.
- obviouslygreen 14y ago
  I'm not sure if you're just adding your two cents, which is cool, or wherever you're trying to suggest that I made or agree with the assertion that objectification is a "sin." I do not, and never suggested as much, I simply stated that it was clearly happening.
  - stcredzero 14y ago
    You can just assume I'm adding my two cents.

Kequc 14y ago

I think the major source of OPs discomfort at the conference was that she is surrounding herself with gamers. I'm just saying gamers spend time playing video games they could be spending interacting with other human beings, going out. Two things that many gamers significantly undervalue. So they get weird. I mean I don't really know how else to put it. No group of grown ups standing around at a conference would notice the number of "booth babes" and then get upset. Something which happened to gamers a little while ago. So a bunch of pretty girls who probably didn't like being there in those places very much to begin with lost their jobs. The hyper insecurity of attendees at these conferences and previously mentioned "weirdness" are contributors. Many, from my research of the opposition to "booth babes" are insecure that they are not regarded as adults due to "booth babes" being around. Even some people in this thread have stated that they don't like being marketed to as knuckle draggers. Well. The gaming industry is largely populated by adolescents, that is why the marketing that is chosen gets chosen. If they were adult enough to not mind the presence of "booth babes" and just enjoy themselves at the conferences, investigating the technologies they are interested in things could be a lot better. But they're not. Things are weird. Interactions are stressful and now marketers need to awkwardly conceal their attempts at marketing.

bluehat 14y ago
I actually generally really enjoy the company of gamers. They may be funny people, but most of the time they're good people.

stcredzero 14y ago

> we have something that I'd call far worse in its subtlety: Using women for exactly the same purpose Let's get this straight: It's not a sin. Objectification is just a particular functional state. There is only a problem when there is a systemic imbalance that either consistently robs a particular group of agency. There is nothing inherently wrong with objectification. When you are being a spokesperson, you are voluntarily being objectified. You have basically taken on the role of an information appliance -- one with a friendly face and engaging manner, hopefully. This is fine. What would be wrong is if everyone treated you this way depending on some trait, like your gender or race. (Which is what happens when people assume female developers are paid shills or when people assume that the females in the current context are just decorative.) The notion that "Objectification = Sin" is onerous nonsense. Denizens of a complex multicultural world need to turn on the brains and understand functional implications. We should stop using labels and tribal knee-jerks. Our new world is too complicated for those old heuristics.

obviouslygreen 14y ago
I'm not sure if you're just adding your two cents, which is cool, or wherever you're trying to suggest that I made or agree with the assertion that objectification is a "sin." I do not, and never suggested as much, I simply stated that it was clearly happening.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  You can just assume I'm adding my two cents.