3 ms·

Show me a counterexample, that's all I ask. I'd give all the rhetoric in the world for a single damned counterexample of a program format that's lasted since th

Show me a counterexample, that's all I ask. I'd give all the rhetoric in the world for a single damned counterexample of a program format that's lasted since the 80s. That's what's at stake. Instead we have a company that throws specs over the wall like they're teenaged nerds that have just discovered Pascal's pack function, a company that pushed SPDY on everyone despite it relying on a draft SSL feature that got rejected at the IETF (and in the space of 2/3 years we now have three HTTP variants - and why? Because 3 years ago it shaved 1ms off a maps.google.com request). Did you even take a look at the original WebSocket spec? It worked in terms of comparing the entire start of the HTTP request using memcmp()! Regardless of my opinion of NaCl, this is stuff that should be getting defined slowly and in the open by bearded old men that have spent their lives in glacial, trusted industries like telecoms, or just about any other mature technology industry. Not a throng of Java graduates who think they're changing the world by continually dumping crap specs over the wall and paying for subsidized articles to promote them.

niggler 14y ago
"a throng of Java graduates who think they're changing the world by continually dumping crap specs over the wall and paying for subsidized articles to promote them." Based on the media hype surrounding asm.js, it really sounds like mozilla fits the description
- shardling 14y ago
  >Based on the media hype surrounding asm.js, it really sounds like mozilla fits the description Wait, what? I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. If you seriously think Mozilla has payed for articles about themselves, you've gone off the deep end. I know that I personally became aware of asm.js because of an offhand comment Eich made on HN. I posted that link on both reddit and HN, which I guess was the start of the hype, so if you could let me know where to collect my Mozilla money I'd be obliged. :)
pifflesnort 14y ago
> Show me a counterexample, that's all I ask. I'd give all the rhetoric in the world for a single damned counterexample of a program format that's lasted since the 80s. That's what's at stake. ELF was defined in the late 80s/early 90s as part of SVR4. COFF was defined as part of SVR3. Both still exist today. The JVM bytecode was defined in 1995 and has been evolved compatibly. I'm curious, though. Do you require the same longevity of web formats that were defined in the 90s? Things have changed quite a bit, and attempting to browse the modern web with a 90s browser is futile. Given that, I don't really understand what you're arguing for. > Regardless of my opinion of NaCl, this is stuff that should be getting defined slowly and in the open by bearded old men that have spent their lives in glacial, trusted industries like telecoms, or just about any other mature technology industry. Us 'bearded old men' aren't on the web, and its only improvements like SPDY, WebSockets, and NaCL that have made me the slightest bit interested in the web as an application platform.
- pyre 14y ago
  > attempting to browse the modern web with a > 90s browser is futile I think the inverse is what we're talking about. Will we be able to browse NaCl sites in future browsers (possibly after an architecture change away from x86)? As it stands, we would probably be able to browse a 90's site on modern browsers. It sounds like if NaCl compiles things down to ASM x86 (or really AMD64) (?). If that's true, then it's possible for things to not be forward compatible. I'll admit that it doesn't seem likely, especially after what happened with Itanium and AMD64/x86-64, but we could see things move towards ARM.
  - pifflesnort 14y ago
    > I think the inverse is what we're talking about. Will we be able to browse NaCl sites in future browsers (possibly after an architecture change away from x86)? As it stands, we would probably be able to browse a 90's site on modern browsers. Given PNaCL, the answer should be 'yes'.
    - mbetter 14y ago
      For future Google browsers, maybe.

niggler 14y ago

"a throng of Java graduates who think they're changing the world by continually dumping crap specs over the wall and paying for subsidized articles to promote them." Based on the media hype surrounding asm.js, it really sounds like mozilla fits the description

shardling 14y ago
>Based on the media hype surrounding asm.js, it really sounds like mozilla fits the description Wait, what? I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. If you seriously think Mozilla has payed for articles about themselves, you've gone off the deep end. I know that I personally became aware of asm.js because of an offhand comment Eich made on HN. I posted that link on both reddit and HN, which I guess was the start of the hype, so if you could let me know where to collect my Mozilla money I'd be obliged. :)

pifflesnort 14y ago

> Show me a counterexample, that's all I ask. I'd give all the rhetoric in the world for a single damned counterexample of a program format that's lasted since the 80s. That's what's at stake. ELF was defined in the late 80s/early 90s as part of SVR4. COFF was defined as part of SVR3. Both still exist today. The JVM bytecode was defined in 1995 and has been evolved compatibly. I'm curious, though. Do you require the same longevity of web formats that were defined in the 90s? Things have changed quite a bit, and attempting to browse the modern web with a 90s browser is futile. Given that, I don't really understand what you're arguing for. > Regardless of my opinion of NaCl, this is stuff that should be getting defined slowly and in the open by bearded old men that have spent their lives in glacial, trusted industries like telecoms, or just about any other mature technology industry. Us 'bearded old men' aren't on the web, and its only improvements like SPDY, WebSockets, and NaCL that have made me the slightest bit interested in the web as an application platform.

pyre 14y ago
> attempting to browse the modern web with a > 90s browser is futile I think the inverse is what we're talking about. Will we be able to browse NaCl sites in future browsers (possibly after an architecture change away from x86)? As it stands, we would probably be able to browse a 90's site on modern browsers. It sounds like if NaCl compiles things down to ASM x86 (or really AMD64) (?). If that's true, then it's possible for things to not be forward compatible. I'll admit that it doesn't seem likely, especially after what happened with Itanium and AMD64/x86-64, but we could see things move towards ARM.
- pifflesnort 14y ago
  > I think the inverse is what we're talking about. Will we be able to browse NaCl sites in future browsers (possibly after an architecture change away from x86)? As it stands, we would probably be able to browse a 90's site on modern browsers. Given PNaCL, the answer should be 'yes'.
  - mbetter 14y ago
    For future Google browsers, maybe.