7 ms·

Numerous irregularities plus a strong vested interest in the JVM make me doubt they have given adequate shrift to Go, here. Given the amount of interest in Has

by pekk 14y ago

Numerous irregularities plus a strong vested interest in the JVM make me doubt they have given adequate shrift to Go, here. Given the amount of interest in Haskell and Yesod around here, it is strange that it is missing.

goodwink 14y ago
Could you elaborate? Their website seems to indicate that they are a very polyglot shop, not someone pushing a JVM agenda: "On the back-end, we use Java, Ruby, Python, .NET, PHP and others based on what makes sense balancing server performance, scalability, hosting costs, development efficiency, and your internal development team's capabilities."
- pekk 14y ago
  "We have included our in-house Java web framework, Gemini, in our tests. ... " Then you see results for some languages that are completely out of whack with most other such benchmarks (they themselves mention the weirdness of Sinatra vs. Rails, for example). Then you see on a couple platforms that more performant mainstream options have been excluded, for no good reason. Then if you look at the repo, there are deployment choices and code mistakes in some of the other languages which go well beyond elementary incompetence...
  - kainsavage 14y ago
    Feel free to issue a pull request to help our testing. We are not trying to push Java-based frameworks over any others and we believe we are being fair across the board. That being said, if there are "code mistakes... which go well beyond elementary incompetence", then we would love to correct and retest these.
    - stephenhuey 14y ago
      Maybe you should've had the controllers execute raw SQL for a better comparison. I see you executing a regular query in Rails whereas your Java servlet is using prepared statements.
bhauer 14y ago
We love Go here! But admittedly, we have not yet deployed an actual Go web application to a production environment, so the tests demonstrate our first attempt at creating a Go production environment. We based the approach on whatever material we could find on Go reference sites. That said, we'd love to hear what we did wrong in the Go tests so that we can fix those up. We'll be posting follow ups as we've had a chance to go through all the recommended tweaks.
papsosouid 14y ago
>Given the amount of interest in Haskell I see more people making uninformed "haskell sucks" posts than expressing interest in it. >and Yesod Really? Yesod is the anti-haskell haskell framework.
- markokocic 14y ago
  > Really? Yesod is the anti-haskell haskell framework. Can you please elaborate. Being interested in Haskel web development and trying to choose web framework makes me wish for more information.
  - josh-j 14y ago
    I'm guessing, but I think it's because yesod uses a lot of magic such as templates and the like. The other frameworks like Snap use more idiomatic Haskell.
  - pilgrim689 14y ago
    I wouldn't call Yesod "anti-haskell". By default, it relies on QuasiQuotes and TemplateHaskell a lot [1], which are extensions to the GHC. So by default, you'd have a hard time running Yesod applications on anything else but GHC (the Glasgow Haskell Compiler). These extensions allow you to write in an EDSL that generates Haskell for you. IMO, Yesod's use of these extensions are a benefit, as it allows the user to get stuff like type-safe URLs in HTML for free (e.g. you put href=@{Home} on your HTML element and Yesod will ensure that the value interpolates to a route that exists at compile time). Haskell libraries often depend on language extensions, whether it is overloaded strings or type families or whatnot... so I think it's strange that Yesod gets picked on for doing the same: taking advantage of the tools provided by GHC to create a better environment for the developer. [1] http://www.yesodweb.com/book/haskell#template-haskell-14 http://www.yesodweb.com/book/haskell#template-haskell-14
    - bjterry 14y ago
      Hugs is now defunct (last release in September 2006, doesn't even support the 2010 language standard), so there is no reason that being GHC-only should be a consideration in selecting a Haskell framework. It's the only real option.
chrisdone 14y ago
I hope no one contributes a Haskell solution to this farce.

by pekk 14y ago

goodwink 14y ago

Could you elaborate? Their website seems to indicate that they are a very polyglot shop, not someone pushing a JVM agenda: "On the back-end, we use Java, Ruby, Python, .NET, PHP and others based on what makes sense balancing server performance, scalability, hosting costs, development efficiency, and your internal development team's capabilities."

pekk 14y ago
"We have included our in-house Java web framework, Gemini, in our tests. ... " Then you see results for some languages that are completely out of whack with most other such benchmarks (they themselves mention the weirdness of Sinatra vs. Rails, for example). Then you see on a couple platforms that more performant mainstream options have been excluded, for no good reason. Then if you look at the repo, there are deployment choices and code mistakes in some of the other languages which go well beyond elementary incompetence...
- kainsavage 14y ago
  Feel free to issue a pull request to help our testing. We are not trying to push Java-based frameworks over any others and we believe we are being fair across the board. That being said, if there are "code mistakes... which go well beyond elementary incompetence", then we would love to correct and retest these.
  - stephenhuey 14y ago
    Maybe you should've had the controllers execute raw SQL for a better comparison. I see you executing a regular query in Rails whereas your Java servlet is using prepared statements.

bhauer 14y ago

We love Go here! But admittedly, we have not yet deployed an actual Go web application to a production environment, so the tests demonstrate our first attempt at creating a Go production environment. We based the approach on whatever material we could find on Go reference sites. That said, we'd love to hear what we did wrong in the Go tests so that we can fix those up. We'll be posting follow ups as we've had a chance to go through all the recommended tweaks.

papsosouid 14y ago

>Given the amount of interest in Haskell I see more people making uninformed "haskell sucks" posts than expressing interest in it. >and Yesod Really? Yesod is the anti-haskell haskell framework.

markokocic 14y ago
> Really? Yesod is the anti-haskell haskell framework. Can you please elaborate. Being interested in Haskel web development and trying to choose web framework makes me wish for more information.
- josh-j 14y ago
  I'm guessing, but I think it's because yesod uses a lot of magic such as templates and the like. The other frameworks like Snap use more idiomatic Haskell.
- pilgrim689 14y ago
  I wouldn't call Yesod "anti-haskell". By default, it relies on QuasiQuotes and TemplateHaskell a lot [1], which are extensions to the GHC. So by default, you'd have a hard time running Yesod applications on anything else but GHC (the Glasgow Haskell Compiler). These extensions allow you to write in an EDSL that generates Haskell for you. IMO, Yesod's use of these extensions are a benefit, as it allows the user to get stuff like type-safe URLs in HTML for free (e.g. you put href=@{Home} on your HTML element and Yesod will ensure that the value interpolates to a route that exists at compile time). Haskell libraries often depend on language extensions, whether it is overloaded strings or type families or whatnot... so I think it's strange that Yesod gets picked on for doing the same: taking advantage of the tools provided by GHC to create a better environment for the developer. [1] http://www.yesodweb.com/book/haskell#template-haskell-14 http://www.yesodweb.com/book/haskell#template-haskell-14
  - bjterry 14y ago
    Hugs is now defunct (last release in September 2006, doesn't even support the 2010 language standard), so there is no reason that being GHC-only should be a consideration in selecting a Haskell framework. It's the only real option.

chrisdone 14y ago

I hope no one contributes a Haskell solution to this farce.