5 ms·

I really, really want to go to a full Linux desktop. What keeps holding me back are dumb things like video driver support, peripheral support for things I use,

by Nrsolis 14y ago

I really, really want to go to a full Linux desktop. What keeps holding me back are dumb things like video driver support, peripheral support for things I use, and general awkwardness with the whole plug/unplug state of affairs that is de rigueur in the laptop space. Has any of this changed?

rayiner 14y ago
I'd be happy with GNOME in the 3.x incarnation, but the whole "turn your 7-hour Macbook Air into a 4-hour Linux machine" is just not okay. I need parity in battery life.
- dhruvmittal 14y ago
  Is the poor power management on Linux a Macbook specific thing? Linux turns my 3-hour Thinkpad into a 6-hour Thinkpad, which kills Windows for me.
  - kunai 14y ago
    Possibly. Since Apple designs and tailors OS X to each laptop, they're able to squeeze the most battery life out of them.
- Nrsolis 14y ago
  EXACTLY. We're constantly a step or two behind in terms of platform support. Why isn't there a top-tier platform company (or nimble upstart) out there taking the lead and making a machine that has 100% driver support under Linux? I am holding out hope that the Piston might get us there, but I'm not holding my breath.
  - benev 14y ago
    ZaReason (http://zareason.com/ http://zareason.com/) is another company that does. I haven't used them personally, but have heard good things about them.
  - Erwin 14y ago
    My Dell XPS 13 (Developer Edition) came preinstalled with Ubuntu 12.04: http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd (aka "project sputnik") I haven't used it or other laptops enough to say how good it really is (but hibernate etc. works, the screen and keyboard are nice compared to other ultrabooks I tried; it's light and clean). The trackpad is annoying though but I think I'll always prefer a mouse.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    https://www.system76.com/ https://www.system76.com/ ?
    - Nrsolis 14y ago
      They just take OEM laptops and sell them. They aren't doing any actual system design or driver writing to make sure that everything works correctly.
      - jiggy2011 14y ago
        I have never owned one, but I assume they pick hardware that actually has working drivers?
  - JoshTriplett 14y ago
    > Why isn't there a top-tier platform company (or nimble upstart) out there taking the lead and making a machine that has 100% driver support under Linux? How about a Chromebook? They run Linux, and pointedly don't run Windows, so you know the hardware will work under Linux.
    - rayiner 14y ago
      Do they get good battery life in Linux? I hear the Pixel gets shitty battery life, but I'm not sure whether it's Linux or a small battery at fault.
    - Nrsolis 14y ago
      I really want the Pixel to get some traction. UNfortunately, the tiny SSD and no USB3.0 kill it for me.
  - TheLegace 14y ago
    Get ready, I have been trying to get things together for a startup to accomplish this.
  - brian_cloutier 14y ago
    System76 does this, my last few laptops have all been bought from them. They don't design their own hardware, but they only sell hardware that is well supported. Battery life is good, the price is great, and the support has always been amazing.
    - rayiner 14y ago
      1" thick and 4.5 lbs for the 14.1"? What is this, 2006?
  - rogerbinns 14y ago
    > Why isn't there a top-tier platform company (or nimble upstart) out there taking the lead and making a machine that has 100% driver support under Linux? Providing you stick to Intel (eg no Nvidia graphics) then the Thinkpad T series (and probably most others) work very well under Linux. Occasionally there are issues but Lenovo do fix them (eg BIOS updates). Of course Lenovo won't sell you one without Windows! The only thing that hasn't been supported in my last two Thinkpads (T430s and T61) has been the fingerprint reader. More accurately it is supported in dumb mode, but not in smart mode as it is under Windows. That is largely the fault of the company that makes the reader, although they have been bought by Apple so who knows what happens next.
pepr 14y ago
Somewhat improved, but especially in the notebook space it's still far from optimal. This is not necessarily fault of the commnunity - laptops often have custom hardware (e.g. NVIDIA Optimus) that simply doesn't have driver support because vendor doesn't care.
- rjbond3rd 14y ago
  You may be happy to know that Optimus video is supported on Linux by Bumblebee, http://bumblebee-project.org/ http://bumblebee-project.org/
  - lmm 14y ago
    Yes and no. My system hard-shutdowns if I try and run Bumblebee. It works for some people but it's very much alpha quality at this point.
shitlord 14y ago
Not much has changed: there are still a bunch of hurdles holding back the average user. Those issues are still around today, and especially for newer hardware. The biggest problem IMO is the graphics. On my laptop (a Dell XPS I purchased in 2011) the OSs I installed (Fedora and Ubuntu) couldn't render anything serious. If I wanted to watch a TV-HD release, the screen would flicker; if I wanted to make a 3D plot in Mathematica, it wouldn't show; if I wanted to play a simple, lightweight game like Teeworlds, it wouldn't run. I had to use Bumblebee to get around it, but graphics still lagged. Some of these problems are common enough that you can just google up a solution, but you shouldn't have to do that in the first place. I really like the idea of a Linux desktop, but it's just not going to happen anytime in the near future.
- bijupunalor 14y ago
  I'm another XPS user. I have to use linux (for work). Bumblebee is PITA on ubuntu and fedora, but works surprisingly well on opensuse 12.3 check: http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/hardware/484188-setup-bumblebee-primus-opensuse-12-3-a.html http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/h... ( after installing bumblebee and primus, please remember to add your user to 'bumblebee' and 'video' groups, before reboot) KDE is still a messy shit but doesn't crash much any more ;). It can display a wicked Mandelbrot as background but can't auto add wallpapers in ~/Pictures. Reports about v4.10 desktop indexing being 'sane' and 'reasonable' are wholly untrue. sound works over HDMI cable but occasionally goes quiet (relogin). flicker is an xorg feature which is not going away :( Sound is still subpar compared to maxx drivers under windows. So much for 'Open-source Desktop'

by Nrsolis 14y ago

rayiner 14y ago

I'd be happy with GNOME in the 3.x incarnation, but the whole "turn your 7-hour Macbook Air into a 4-hour Linux machine" is just not okay. I need parity in battery life.

dhruvmittal 14y ago
Is the poor power management on Linux a Macbook specific thing? Linux turns my 3-hour Thinkpad into a 6-hour Thinkpad, which kills Windows for me.
- kunai 14y ago
  Possibly. Since Apple designs and tailors OS X to each laptop, they're able to squeeze the most battery life out of them.
Nrsolis 14y ago
EXACTLY. We're constantly a step or two behind in terms of platform support. Why isn't there a top-tier platform company (or nimble upstart) out there taking the lead and making a machine that has 100% driver support under Linux? I am holding out hope that the Piston might get us there, but I'm not holding my breath.
- benev 14y ago
  ZaReason (http://zareason.com/ http://zareason.com/) is another company that does. I haven't used them personally, but have heard good things about them.
- Erwin 14y ago
  My Dell XPS 13 (Developer Edition) came preinstalled with Ubuntu 12.04: http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd (aka "project sputnik") I haven't used it or other laptops enough to say how good it really is (but hibernate etc. works, the screen and keyboard are nice compared to other ultrabooks I tried; it's light and clean). The trackpad is annoying though but I think I'll always prefer a mouse.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  https://www.system76.com/ https://www.system76.com/ ?
  - Nrsolis 14y ago
    They just take OEM laptops and sell them. They aren't doing any actual system design or driver writing to make sure that everything works correctly.
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      I have never owned one, but I assume they pick hardware that actually has working drivers?
- JoshTriplett 14y ago
  > Why isn't there a top-tier platform company (or nimble upstart) out there taking the lead and making a machine that has 100% driver support under Linux? How about a Chromebook? They run Linux, and pointedly don't run Windows, so you know the hardware will work under Linux.
  - rayiner 14y ago
    Do they get good battery life in Linux? I hear the Pixel gets shitty battery life, but I'm not sure whether it's Linux or a small battery at fault.
  - Nrsolis 14y ago
    I really want the Pixel to get some traction. UNfortunately, the tiny SSD and no USB3.0 kill it for me.
- TheLegace 14y ago
  Get ready, I have been trying to get things together for a startup to accomplish this.
- brian_cloutier 14y ago
  System76 does this, my last few laptops have all been bought from them. They don't design their own hardware, but they only sell hardware that is well supported. Battery life is good, the price is great, and the support has always been amazing.
  - rayiner 14y ago
    1" thick and 4.5 lbs for the 14.1"? What is this, 2006?
- rogerbinns 14y ago
  > Why isn't there a top-tier platform company (or nimble upstart) out there taking the lead and making a machine that has 100% driver support under Linux? Providing you stick to Intel (eg no Nvidia graphics) then the Thinkpad T series (and probably most others) work very well under Linux. Occasionally there are issues but Lenovo do fix them (eg BIOS updates). Of course Lenovo won't sell you one without Windows! The only thing that hasn't been supported in my last two Thinkpads (T430s and T61) has been the fingerprint reader. More accurately it is supported in dumb mode, but not in smart mode as it is under Windows. That is largely the fault of the company that makes the reader, although they have been bought by Apple so who knows what happens next.

pepr 14y ago

Somewhat improved, but especially in the notebook space it's still far from optimal. This is not necessarily fault of the commnunity - laptops often have custom hardware (e.g. NVIDIA Optimus) that simply doesn't have driver support because vendor doesn't care.

rjbond3rd 14y ago
You may be happy to know that Optimus video is supported on Linux by Bumblebee, http://bumblebee-project.org/ http://bumblebee-project.org/
- lmm 14y ago
  Yes and no. My system hard-shutdowns if I try and run Bumblebee. It works for some people but it's very much alpha quality at this point.

shitlord 14y ago

Not much has changed: there are still a bunch of hurdles holding back the average user. Those issues are still around today, and especially for newer hardware. The biggest problem IMO is the graphics. On my laptop (a Dell XPS I purchased in 2011) the OSs I installed (Fedora and Ubuntu) couldn't render anything serious. If I wanted to watch a TV-HD release, the screen would flicker; if I wanted to make a 3D plot in Mathematica, it wouldn't show; if I wanted to play a simple, lightweight game like Teeworlds, it wouldn't run. I had to use Bumblebee to get around it, but graphics still lagged. Some of these problems are common enough that you can just google up a solution, but you shouldn't have to do that in the first place. I really like the idea of a Linux desktop, but it's just not going to happen anytime in the near future.

bijupunalor 14y ago
I'm another XPS user. I have to use linux (for work). Bumblebee is PITA on ubuntu and fedora, but works surprisingly well on opensuse 12.3 check: http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/hardware/484188-setup-bumblebee-primus-opensuse-12-3-a.html http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/h... ( after installing bumblebee and primus, please remember to add your user to 'bumblebee' and 'video' groups, before reboot) KDE is still a messy shit but doesn't crash much any more ;). It can display a wicked Mandelbrot as background but can't auto add wallpapers in ~/Pictures. Reports about v4.10 desktop indexing being 'sane' and 'reasonable' are wholly untrue. sound works over HDMI cable but occasionally goes quiet (relogin). flicker is an xorg feature which is not going away :( Sound is still subpar compared to maxx drivers under windows. So much for 'Open-source Desktop'