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I hate cloud headlines. What's the hypervisor? VMWare is a hypervisor (ESX) and management applications (vCenter/vSphere, vCloud Director, etc). Openstack is

by 3am 14y ago

I hate cloud headlines. What's the hypervisor? VMWare is a hypervisor (ESX) and management applications (vCenter/vSphere, vCloud Director, etc). Openstack is only the management applications. And VMWare contributes the most interesting part of OpenStack, anyway, which is the virtual networking based on Nicira's OpenFlow. My personal experience with OpenStack (admittedly late Diablo release timeframe) was that it was borderline unusable outside of the developer setup of a standalone node on Ubuntu 11.4 backed with KVM (edit: and that was only Nova/Compute, not even including Swift/Storage). Anyway, very interested to see if this is KVM, Xen, or something else backed. Also very interested to see when they reverse their decision (probably after VMWare comes down on pricing by 10-20 percent).

anotherjesse 14y ago
The Diablo version was the first version that really combined the projects. Before Diablo each system had its own auth/user system, api style, ... We've come a long way in 2 years :) Redhat (EPEL/Fedora) and Ubuntu now have built-in packages that are much more solid. That said, the way to think about OpenStack is like you think about the linux kernel. Most people want a distro, not raw source to setup their environments. Over the last couple years we've seen real advances in distros.
- 3am 14y ago
  I've kept up a little on OpenStack since then and know people that work with the technology. I'm sure the keystone integrated auth system (or whatever it's called now) really improved things, and it seems like people are making really progress with pushbutton deployments using the usual config/orchestration suspects. Congrats! That said I know more people would would be content to manage ESX with ovftool or some homebrew solution w/ the soap api than I do who would be willing to use the linux kernel without the usual userspace tools.
  - viraptor 14y ago
    What do you mean by "linux kernel without the usual userspace tools"? Openstack runs on a complete system with all the tools you want to install, not some bare kernel machine.
    - 3am 14y ago
      "OpenStack is like you think about the linux kernel. Most people want a distro, not raw source to setup their environments" Since he was comparing the relationship between a hypervisor and Openstack to that between the Linux kernel and the userspace tools, and I was just commenting on that comparison. That is, which I know people that use hypervisors without Openstack (or other virtualization management applications like Cloudstack or vCenter), I don't know anyone that uses the kernel on its own. Sorry, I thought that was clear but I guess it was not.
  - rektide 14y ago
    I know more people would would be content to manage ESX with ovftool or some homebrew solution w/ the soap api I for one am not content relying on someone else to manage all of our management tools. On that grounds, love hearing interesting news about OpenStack, CloudStack, Docker.io, or any project which releases open code purporting to helps us all to manage our many nodes, real and virtual. without usual userspace tools As for the unusual "without usual userspace tools" criteria you added, I literally have no idea what you are talking about. OpenStack is a bunch of code that runs in an OS, there's nothing nearly so magical or different about an OpenStack node as you imply. Do whatever you feel is best for your host nodes. I install Debian packages on the host and manage it with many of the same tools used to manage it's images. It looks very much like the same usual "just a boring usual Linux node" node I log in to. http://wiki.debian.org/OpenStack http://wiki.debian.org/OpenStack
sc68cal 14y ago
>What's the hypervisor? OpenStack supports multiple hypervisors. They are implemented as drivers - and are in this part of the OpenStack codebase: https://github.com/openstack/nova/tree/master/nova/virt/ https://github.com/openstack/nova/tree/master/nova/virt/ See my slides from a talk I did yesterday. https://github.com/sc68cal/openstack-theory-and-practice-presentation https://github.com/sc68cal/openstack-theory-and-practice-pre...
- 3am 14y ago
  I know this, I'm asking which one of the supported hypervisors Paypal planned on using in their deployment.
- easytiger 14y ago
  Then they should say that. Reading their website tells me their are doing that bullshit thing were they divorce the tech from the marketing completely. > OpenStack is a cloud operating system that controls large pools of compute, storage, and networking resources throughout a datacenter, all managed through a dashboard that gives administrators control while empowering their users to provision resources through a web interface. Should it (??) really say : > Openstack is a ton of scripts and tools and things which pull lots of various bits of software together and allow you to have redeployable virtual machines all over the place
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
insaneirish 14y ago
> And VMWare contributes the most interesting part of OpenStack, anyway, which is the virtual networking based on Nicira's OpenFlow. Agree with you about the headline. However, VMWare is not contributing Nicira for free. There just happens to be a Quantum plugin for Nicira (as there is for pretty much everything else).
superuser2 14y ago
Rackspace Cloud Servers runs on OpenStack. It seems to work pretty well for them.
- samstave 14y ago
  I would expect that it maybe heavily custom/staffed-up-to-be-configured-for-their-infra I.E. - it likely didn't just work pretty well for them out of the box. There is a difference between using a base technology which requires you have FTEs on staff to maintain it and grabbing an off-the-shelf app to help run your systems.
  - briffle 14y ago
    They are one of the two core companies that founded openstack, based on what they needed to run internally. It was rackspace and Nasa.
  - vegasbrianc 14y ago
    Isn't the idea of Open Source technologies? Customizing software for your particular use?
aliguori 14y ago
http://www.slideshare.net/openstackindia/openstack-at-paypal-15673557 http://www.slideshare.net/openstackindia/openstack-at-paypal... Has more details. Looks like it's KVM.
tsmith 14y ago
Almost definitely KVM. The Ubuntu/KVM/OpenStack combo is the bread-and-butter deployment scenario outside of a small number of folks (notably Rackspace, which is OpenStack on XenServer^TM). Also, <= Diablo and to a large extent Essex releases were known to be (politely speaking) less-than-usable OOTB. Folsom was really the first release that could properly be called usable for a production IaaS, and Grizzly is even better. Source: knowing these things is my job.
- 3am 14y ago
  Many thanks for the info. I had a hell of a time trying^H^H^H^H^H^Hfailing to get Diablo working with XenServer, too. No ill will towards the project, and glad to hear it's maturing. It seemed to be in relatively good hands with Rackspace.
- hkolk 14y ago
  Hmm, eBay has worked extensively with rackspace for cloud-platforming though, so I think it's mostly Xen: http://www.rackspace.com/knowledge_center/case-study/an-openstack-case-study-enabling-the-xcommerce-cloud http://www.rackspace.com/knowledge_center/case-study/an-open... http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/08/03/0219230/ebay-deploys-100tb-of-ssds-cuts-rackspace-by-half http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/08/03/0219230/ebay-dep...

by 3am 14y ago

anotherjesse 14y ago

The Diablo version was the first version that really combined the projects. Before Diablo each system had its own auth/user system, api style, ... We've come a long way in 2 years :) Redhat (EPEL/Fedora) and Ubuntu now have built-in packages that are much more solid. That said, the way to think about OpenStack is like you think about the linux kernel. Most people want a distro, not raw source to setup their environments. Over the last couple years we've seen real advances in distros.

3am 14y ago
I've kept up a little on OpenStack since then and know people that work with the technology. I'm sure the keystone integrated auth system (or whatever it's called now) really improved things, and it seems like people are making really progress with pushbutton deployments using the usual config/orchestration suspects. Congrats! That said I know more people would would be content to manage ESX with ovftool or some homebrew solution w/ the soap api than I do who would be willing to use the linux kernel without the usual userspace tools.
- viraptor 14y ago
  What do you mean by "linux kernel without the usual userspace tools"? Openstack runs on a complete system with all the tools you want to install, not some bare kernel machine.
  - 3am 14y ago
    "OpenStack is like you think about the linux kernel. Most people want a distro, not raw source to setup their environments" Since he was comparing the relationship between a hypervisor and Openstack to that between the Linux kernel and the userspace tools, and I was just commenting on that comparison. That is, which I know people that use hypervisors without Openstack (or other virtualization management applications like Cloudstack or vCenter), I don't know anyone that uses the kernel on its own. Sorry, I thought that was clear but I guess it was not.
- rektide 14y ago
  I know more people would would be content to manage ESX with ovftool or some homebrew solution w/ the soap api I for one am not content relying on someone else to manage all of our management tools. On that grounds, love hearing interesting news about OpenStack, CloudStack, Docker.io, or any project which releases open code purporting to helps us all to manage our many nodes, real and virtual. without usual userspace tools As for the unusual "without usual userspace tools" criteria you added, I literally have no idea what you are talking about. OpenStack is a bunch of code that runs in an OS, there's nothing nearly so magical or different about an OpenStack node as you imply. Do whatever you feel is best for your host nodes. I install Debian packages on the host and manage it with many of the same tools used to manage it's images. It looks very much like the same usual "just a boring usual Linux node" node I log in to. http://wiki.debian.org/OpenStack http://wiki.debian.org/OpenStack

sc68cal 14y ago

>What's the hypervisor? OpenStack supports multiple hypervisors. They are implemented as drivers - and are in this part of the OpenStack codebase: https://github.com/openstack/nova/tree/master/nova/virt/ https://github.com/openstack/nova/tree/master/nova/virt/ See my slides from a talk I did yesterday. https://github.com/sc68cal/openstack-theory-and-practice-presentation https://github.com/sc68cal/openstack-theory-and-practice-pre...

3am 14y ago
I know this, I'm asking which one of the supported hypervisors Paypal planned on using in their deployment.
easytiger 14y ago
Then they should say that. Reading their website tells me their are doing that bullshit thing were they divorce the tech from the marketing completely. > OpenStack is a cloud operating system that controls large pools of compute, storage, and networking resources throughout a datacenter, all managed through a dashboard that gives administrators control while empowering their users to provision resources through a web interface. Should it (??) really say : > Openstack is a ton of scripts and tools and things which pull lots of various bits of software together and allow you to have redeployable virtual machines all over the place
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

insaneirish 14y ago

> And VMWare contributes the most interesting part of OpenStack, anyway, which is the virtual networking based on Nicira's OpenFlow. Agree with you about the headline. However, VMWare is not contributing Nicira for free. There just happens to be a Quantum plugin for Nicira (as there is for pretty much everything else).

superuser2 14y ago

Rackspace Cloud Servers runs on OpenStack. It seems to work pretty well for them.

samstave 14y ago
I would expect that it maybe heavily custom/staffed-up-to-be-configured-for-their-infra I.E. - it likely didn't just work pretty well for them out of the box. There is a difference between using a base technology which requires you have FTEs on staff to maintain it and grabbing an off-the-shelf app to help run your systems.
- briffle 14y ago
  They are one of the two core companies that founded openstack, based on what they needed to run internally. It was rackspace and Nasa.
- vegasbrianc 14y ago
  Isn't the idea of Open Source technologies? Customizing software for your particular use?

aliguori 14y ago

http://www.slideshare.net/openstackindia/openstack-at-paypal-15673557 http://www.slideshare.net/openstackindia/openstack-at-paypal... Has more details. Looks like it's KVM.

tsmith 14y ago

Almost definitely KVM. The Ubuntu/KVM/OpenStack combo is the bread-and-butter deployment scenario outside of a small number of folks (notably Rackspace, which is OpenStack on XenServer^TM). Also, <= Diablo and to a large extent Essex releases were known to be (politely speaking) less-than-usable OOTB. Folsom was really the first release that could properly be called usable for a production IaaS, and Grizzly is even better. Source: knowing these things is my job.

3am 14y ago
Many thanks for the info. I had a hell of a time trying^H^H^H^H^H^Hfailing to get Diablo working with XenServer, too. No ill will towards the project, and glad to hear it's maturing. It seemed to be in relatively good hands with Rackspace.
hkolk 14y ago
Hmm, eBay has worked extensively with rackspace for cloud-platforming though, so I think it's mostly Xen: http://www.rackspace.com/knowledge_center/case-study/an-openstack-case-study-enabling-the-xcommerce-cloud http://www.rackspace.com/knowledge_center/case-study/an-open... http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/08/03/0219230/ebay-deploys-100tb-of-ssds-cuts-rackspace-by-half http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/08/03/0219230/ebay-dep...