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I didn't downvote it but I think I know why: there's a huge wave of negativity on HN and your question sounds like criticism. There are ways to formulate the s

I didn't downvote it but I think I know why: there's a huge wave of negativity on HN and your question sounds like criticism. There are ways to formulate the same question which would be much nicer and less negative, for example: "It's great to see other solutions providing things similar to OpenID. Can anyone explain what are the differences with OpenID?" Simply writing: "How is this different from XXX?" just sounds rude and negative.

freshhawk 14y ago
Understand where you are coming from but this is an overreaction. An HN where you have to wrap a plain, absolutely neutral question like this in a bunch of false praise or meaningless filler words is a much much worse place than the HN that might be overly critical/negative by default (and this perception is partly false, reinforced by the cultural belief that questions are attacks).
- yellowseed 14y ago
  On the other hand, paraphrasing what you've said to make a counter-argument: an HN where a peaceful, respectful atmosphere is sustained by thoughtfully worded comments is a much much worse place than an HN where dry, hastily worded comments take some heat.
  - Helianthus 14y ago
    Honestly, I'm not sure if your counter argument is intended to be ironic. I'm used to an Internet where you're not required to be so goddamned polite. Seems to me it becomes the spidery veneer of Silicon Valley networking; insincere, self-interested, and a corruption of what it means to be 'nice.'
    - mindcrime 14y ago
      What's wrong with being polite? It doesn't cost any extra and there are a lot of people who appreciate it.
      - Helianthus 14y ago
        Not anything wrong with being polite. Plenty wrong with requiring people to be polite.
        cpeterso 14y ago
        You're not required to be polite, but you may be downvoted.
        Helianthus 14y ago
        shrug yep. I'm saying more that there can be an atmosphere of required politeness. I mean, look; the OP asked a really good, terse question and got downvoted presumably because it was 'rude.' That's just silly.
        18pfsmt 14y ago
        I'm curious how the GP's question can be construed as "good" when there exists a blog post that explicitly addresses it. This indicates the GP didn't do even cursory research to determine the answer for themselves. In other words, the GP was lazy, expecting to be hand-fed, and was down-voted as a result.
        freshhawk 14y ago
        Ah! If he was downvoted for asking an easily google-able question then that's reasonable and end of discussion. The discussion here started because of the statement that he was probably downvoted because "how is this different from X?" is interpreted as "This is stupid, we already have X."
  - freshhawk 14y ago
    > thoughtfully worded comments That's what makes me disagree. I want honest comments and thoughtful reading. To break that down further: We have a comment "How is this different from X?" which can be interpreted literally, as an honest question, or with the assumption that what he actually meant is "This is stupid because we already have X". One solution is to encourage people to write "No offense to the project, It looks interesting but I honestly don't know what differentiates it from X, and if you could explain it in contrast to X I will understand it better since I already understand X" That's ... ok, but the writer will never anticipate every possible misinterpretation so you will have verbose comments full of fluffy meaningless language and still have the same problem. The alternative is encouraging people to think about the phrase "benefit of the doubt", what it means and why it's a well known phrase in the first place. If someone asks "How is this different from X" then you take it to mean what it says, you don't try to guess at what possible negative thing he might have meant. So the replies would all take that comment seriously. What's the downside? Someones snarky comment would be read as honest and there would be an answer. Who's going to reply with "I actually meant that sarcastically"? Some people might, but they'll just look foolish. If the choice is between: 1. encouraging a culture where questions are taken as honest questions or 2. one where every question is scrutinized for the slightest possible clue of hidden negative meaning and you have to fill your comment with false praise and legal and marketing language to avoid any possibility of the suggestion of offense Then the answer is obvious to me.
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  For better or worse, the former is what HN usually seems to be. I remember when I started using the site, I spent several weeks learning to write in the fashion of the former to avoid all the negative reactions.
arethuza 14y ago
"How is this different from XXX?" That just sounds like a direct question to me - not rude or negative. "It's great to see other solutions providing things similar to OpenID" I don't see what that adds - everyone reading this already knows it is a solution similar to OpenID so why restate it? Note that I also apologise if you think this reply is rude - I'm really not meaning to be.
StacyC 14y ago
Simply writing: "How is this different from XXX?" just sounds rude and negative. It reads like a perfectly reasonable question to me. Where exactly are you finding rudeness and negativity?

freshhawk 14y ago

Understand where you are coming from but this is an overreaction. An HN where you have to wrap a plain, absolutely neutral question like this in a bunch of false praise or meaningless filler words is a much much worse place than the HN that might be overly critical/negative by default (and this perception is partly false, reinforced by the cultural belief that questions are attacks).

yellowseed 14y ago
On the other hand, paraphrasing what you've said to make a counter-argument: an HN where a peaceful, respectful atmosphere is sustained by thoughtfully worded comments is a much much worse place than an HN where dry, hastily worded comments take some heat.
- Helianthus 14y ago
  Honestly, I'm not sure if your counter argument is intended to be ironic. I'm used to an Internet where you're not required to be so goddamned polite. Seems to me it becomes the spidery veneer of Silicon Valley networking; insincere, self-interested, and a corruption of what it means to be 'nice.'
  - mindcrime 14y ago
    What's wrong with being polite? It doesn't cost any extra and there are a lot of people who appreciate it.
    - Helianthus 14y ago
      Not anything wrong with being polite. Plenty wrong with requiring people to be polite.
      - cpeterso 14y ago
        You're not required to be polite, but you may be downvoted.
        Helianthus 14y ago
        shrug yep. I'm saying more that there can be an atmosphere of required politeness. I mean, look; the OP asked a really good, terse question and got downvoted presumably because it was 'rude.' That's just silly.
        18pfsmt 14y ago
        I'm curious how the GP's question can be construed as "good" when there exists a blog post that explicitly addresses it. This indicates the GP didn't do even cursory research to determine the answer for themselves. In other words, the GP was lazy, expecting to be hand-fed, and was down-voted as a result.
        freshhawk 14y ago
        Ah! If he was downvoted for asking an easily google-able question then that's reasonable and end of discussion. The discussion here started because of the statement that he was probably downvoted because "how is this different from X?" is interpreted as "This is stupid, we already have X."
- freshhawk 14y ago
  > thoughtfully worded comments That's what makes me disagree. I want honest comments and thoughtful reading. To break that down further: We have a comment "How is this different from X?" which can be interpreted literally, as an honest question, or with the assumption that what he actually meant is "This is stupid because we already have X". One solution is to encourage people to write "No offense to the project, It looks interesting but I honestly don't know what differentiates it from X, and if you could explain it in contrast to X I will understand it better since I already understand X" That's ... ok, but the writer will never anticipate every possible misinterpretation so you will have verbose comments full of fluffy meaningless language and still have the same problem. The alternative is encouraging people to think about the phrase "benefit of the doubt", what it means and why it's a well known phrase in the first place. If someone asks "How is this different from X" then you take it to mean what it says, you don't try to guess at what possible negative thing he might have meant. So the replies would all take that comment seriously. What's the downside? Someones snarky comment would be read as honest and there would be an answer. Who's going to reply with "I actually meant that sarcastically"? Some people might, but they'll just look foolish. If the choice is between: 1. encouraging a culture where questions are taken as honest questions or 2. one where every question is scrutinized for the slightest possible clue of hidden negative meaning and you have to fill your comment with false praise and legal and marketing language to avoid any possibility of the suggestion of offense Then the answer is obvious to me.
sliverstorm 14y ago
For better or worse, the former is what HN usually seems to be. I remember when I started using the site, I spent several weeks learning to write in the fashion of the former to avoid all the negative reactions.

arethuza 14y ago

"How is this different from XXX?" That just sounds like a direct question to me - not rude or negative. "It's great to see other solutions providing things similar to OpenID" I don't see what that adds - everyone reading this already knows it is a solution similar to OpenID so why restate it? Note that I also apologise if you think this reply is rude - I'm really not meaning to be.

StacyC 14y ago

Simply writing: "How is this different from XXX?" just sounds rude and negative. It reads like a perfectly reasonable question to me. Where exactly are you finding rudeness and negativity?