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The concept of a victimless crime is difficult: let's say we have a kid with no money. Currently, pretty much the default route for that kid to get music is to

The concept of a victimless crime is difficult: let's say we have a kid with no money. Currently, pretty much the default route for that kid to get music is to simply pirate it. In the past, a music-loving kid might have done extra chores, got a paper route, or whatever to earn some extra cash and buy the item. The fact that someone has no money now is no indication that they wouldn't buy something if they had no other route to accessing it. Now of course, some crimes really are victimless. People pirate stuff that they really wouldn't buy. I certainly don't quarrel with you that in this case no significant harm is done to the property owner. The key problem here is the issue of enforceability. Maybe you and I can be trusted to pay for the things we really think are worth it, but if you think everyone can, you're probably mistaken. How do you enforce copyrights if all an illegitimate copyer has to do is lie and say that they wouldn't have bought the item? The law needs to be enforceable, and it can't possibly effectively cover every corner case. It is of necessity coarsely grained, and some activities that are victimless are nonetheless criminalised for the greater overall good: so that victimising actions can be punished. Now, you may not agree that intellectual property rights are the greater good, but that's another discussion altogether ;).

xenophanes 18y ago
I don't see how "the law needs to be enforceable" can be an anti-torrent position. Shutting down torrent sites isn't working out so well. They just provide information, like Google. The actual people doing file transfers are the ones who ought to be in trouble, but that's even less enforceable.
- AlisdairO 18y ago
  It is enforceable. I agree that it's hard or impossible for rights holders to effectively defend their IP in the current environment, but it wouldn't be all that hard for governments to make torrenting too much like hard work for the average individual. Of course, this rightly entails questions about whether defending the IP is worth it, but that's a different issue.

xenophanes 18y ago

I don't see how "the law needs to be enforceable" can be an anti-torrent position. Shutting down torrent sites isn't working out so well. They just provide information, like Google. The actual people doing file transfers are the ones who ought to be in trouble, but that's even less enforceable.

AlisdairO 18y ago
It is enforceable. I agree that it's hard or impossible for rights holders to effectively defend their IP in the current environment, but it wouldn't be all that hard for governments to make torrenting too much like hard work for the average individual. Of course, this rightly entails questions about whether defending the IP is worth it, but that's a different issue.