4 ms·

Well said. We aren't looking for friends (although it doesn't hurt), we're looking for a great place to work!

by era86 14y ago

niggler 14y ago
I think "Will they laugh if I quote something from Office Space?" suggests something different, more about the levity of the team.
- arethuza 14y ago
  Actually, I've seen places where "Do they ever laugh?" would be a more appropriate question.
  - niggler 14y ago
    You know, it's not necessarily a bad thing. I and many others like some separation between "work life" and "personal life"
    - mindcrime 14y ago
      That's a fair point, but there are also many of us who want to be friends with our co-workers, and not just see them as little automatons that we interact with for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, and never again. Personally the kind of companies I prefer to work for are exactly the kind where lots of people are genuinely friends, where they do group activities (voluntary, of course) together outside of work, and where people actually like and enjoy each other. Likewise with the company I've founded... when the day comes that we have employees and all that jazz, I do care about "cultural fit" and I would prefer to bring in people who want to be in that kind of environment. It has nothing to do with wanting to control anyone's "outside of work" life, or denying them "separation of work and personal", it's just that it's more fun to work in that kind of environment and also, IMO, more productive. None of this implies that we would ever demand that someone sacrifice elements of their personal life in favour of doing things with co-workers, of course. And we would not be doing group events where participation is mandatory or where you would be "dinged" for choosing not to go. It's just that I like working in a very collegial, friendly, inviting culture where people genuinely enjoy each other.
      - niggler 14y ago
        'when the day comes that we have employees and all that jazz, I do care about "cultural fit" and I would prefer to bring in people who want to be in that kind of environment.' When the day came when I had to hire a few people, I didn't want to hurt my social relationship with friends in case the business turned south so I hired people a bit more removed from me socially. It's hard enough to think about firing one of them (what will they do afterwards? will they land on their feet elsewhere?), but it would be nearly impossible to fire a friend for poor performance or for anything that isn't a crime.
    - RyanZAG 14y ago
      It's presumptuous to say so, but I think it should be said since it is good advice: you should work towards removing that separation as it will likely improve your life as a whole. I get where you're coming from - work is just how you support the enjoyable parts of your life - but it really is possible to make work also an enjoyable part of your life by working with a team you enjoy on a project that you're passionate about. It's not easy, but it's worth working towards!
      - niggler 14y ago
        "you should work towards removing that separation as it will likely improve your life as a whole" ... and possibly destroy your business. It's hard enough to fire a person, but now imagine having to fire someone you spend your off-hours with. Entangling work and personal life basically clouds your ability to view people objectively. "work is just how you support the enjoyable parts of your life" That's not what I'm saying. When you entangle work and personal life, you make it harder for yourself to make the hard decisions.
    - arethuza 14y ago
      I wasn't advocating having all of your work colleagues as best friends - just being comfortable enough with them so that everyone can share a joke.
- ojbyrne 14y ago
  I know I'm nitpicking here, but there could be many reasons for someone not to laugh at quotes from that movie, and not all of them are necessarily negative to me when screening an employer. I tend to groan when I hear anything from that now 14 year old movie, because it was ok at the time, but just ok and its a signal that you see yourself as part of a hacker/dweeb culture that I personally see as having lived past its due date. There's plenty of other movies you can quote from. On a more serious note, I feel that the Dilbertization of the workspace is a problem, on both sides (employer/employee). It's essentially the replacement of idealism with cynicism, and a bad sign overall.
Nursie 14y ago
I don't necessarily need to be friends with coworkers, but if (say) once a month everyone grabs a beer together, that's not a bad thing and it is something I've asked about at interview. I've worked in places where the answer there would have been "no, never, and we don't eat lunch together either" and really didn't enjoy it.

Well said. We aren't looking for friends (although it doesn't hurt), we're looking for a great place to work!

by era86 14y ago

Well said. We aren't looking for friends (although it doesn't hurt), we're looking for a great place to work!

I think "Will they laugh if I quote something from Office Space?" suggests something different, more about the levity of the team.

arethuza 14y ago
Actually, I've seen places where "Do they ever laugh?" would be a more appropriate question.
- niggler 14y ago
  You know, it's not necessarily a bad thing. I and many others like some separation between "work life" and "personal life"
  - mindcrime 14y ago
    That's a fair point, but there are also many of us who want to be friends with our co-workers, and not just see them as little automatons that we interact with for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, and never again. Personally the kind of companies I prefer to work for are exactly the kind where lots of people are genuinely friends, where they do group activities (voluntary, of course) together outside of work, and where people actually like and enjoy each other. Likewise with the company I've founded... when the day comes that we have employees and all that jazz, I do care about "cultural fit" and I would prefer to bring in people who want to be in that kind of environment. It has nothing to do with wanting to control anyone's "outside of work" life, or denying them "separation of work and personal", it's just that it's more fun to work in that kind of environment and also, IMO, more productive. None of this implies that we would ever demand that someone sacrifice elements of their personal life in favour of doing things with co-workers, of course. And we would not be doing group events where participation is mandatory or where you would be "dinged" for choosing not to go. It's just that I like working in a very collegial, friendly, inviting culture where people genuinely enjoy each other.
    - niggler 14y ago
      'when the day comes that we have employees and all that jazz, I do care about "cultural fit" and I would prefer to bring in people who want to be in that kind of environment.' When the day came when I had to hire a few people, I didn't want to hurt my social relationship with friends in case the business turned south so I hired people a bit more removed from me socially. It's hard enough to think about firing one of them (what will they do afterwards? will they land on their feet elsewhere?), but it would be nearly impossible to fire a friend for poor performance or for anything that isn't a crime.
  - RyanZAG 14y ago
    It's presumptuous to say so, but I think it should be said since it is good advice: you should work towards removing that separation as it will likely improve your life as a whole. I get where you're coming from - work is just how you support the enjoyable parts of your life - but it really is possible to make work also an enjoyable part of your life by working with a team you enjoy on a project that you're passionate about. It's not easy, but it's worth working towards!
    - niggler 14y ago
      "you should work towards removing that separation as it will likely improve your life as a whole" ... and possibly destroy your business. It's hard enough to fire a person, but now imagine having to fire someone you spend your off-hours with. Entangling work and personal life basically clouds your ability to view people objectively. "work is just how you support the enjoyable parts of your life" That's not what I'm saying. When you entangle work and personal life, you make it harder for yourself to make the hard decisions.
  - arethuza 14y ago
    I wasn't advocating having all of your work colleagues as best friends - just being comfortable enough with them so that everyone can share a joke.
ojbyrne 14y ago
I know I'm nitpicking here, but there could be many reasons for someone not to laugh at quotes from that movie, and not all of them are necessarily negative to me when screening an employer. I tend to groan when I hear anything from that now 14 year old movie, because it was ok at the time, but just ok and its a signal that you see yourself as part of a hacker/dweeb culture that I personally see as having lived past its due date. There's plenty of other movies you can quote from. On a more serious note, I feel that the Dilbertization of the workspace is a problem, on both sides (employer/employee). It's essentially the replacement of idealism with cynicism, and a bad sign overall.

Nursie 14y ago

I don't necessarily need to be friends with coworkers, but if (say) once a month everyone grabs a beer together, that's not a bad thing and it is something I've asked about at interview. I've worked in places where the answer there would have been "no, never, and we don't eat lunch together either" and really didn't enjoy it.