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I've got nothing against her philosophy in the abstract, it's how people interpret it that I have a problem with. The "selfishness" in living for yourself is su

I've got nothing against her philosophy in the abstract, it's how people interpret it that I have a problem with. The "selfishness" in living for yourself is supposed to be open ended, but often people interpret this as taking as much as they can for themselves, without thought of the consequences to others. Rand positioned the major protaganists in Atlas Shrugged (eg. Dagny, Rearden, Galt, etc) as real producers, who through their selfishness, were actually acting in the public interest (railroads, steel, etc). The same can't be said for a selfish sub-prime mortgage lender. Rand's ideas are more or less amoral, and probably need to be coupled with some other moral framework for it to be described as "good".

grandalf 18y ago
Dude the sub prime lender is nothing at all like Rand's ideas... First, the idea of the virtue of selfishness is that we should question the "virtue of self-sacrifice". Really what she means is "the virtue of self-actualization". The idea is that the idea that we should all somehow do what we don't want (being selfless) is what she attacks, and her argument makes perfect sense. Second, someone who is part of the home/mortgage industry is not really a capitalist. The industry is full of subsidies, tax breaks, transfers, etc., and is home to Fannie and Freddie, which are government created, Enron-style entities that allow the government to do things "off the books". You're absolutely right that there is nothing the slightest bit similar between the mortgage industry (or most big, entrenched business in the US) and Rand's heroes...
- miked 18y ago
  >> First, the idea of the virtue of selfishness is that we should question the "virtue of self-sacrifice". Really what she means is "the virtue of self-actualization". Good point. Rand called one of her books _The Virtue of Selfishness_, apparently either as a marketing idea or just to get a rise out of people (she seemed to enjoy controversy). "Self-actualization" is more new-agey, and she would probably have disliked it, but it's clear from her writing that that's exactly what she meant.
unalone 18y ago
Exactly! That's the problem with lots of her fans. I tried joining an Objectivist forum once - big mistake. I think the closest to a real Objectivist scene you get is a scene of entrepreneurs, actually.

grandalf 18y ago

Dude the sub prime lender is nothing at all like Rand's ideas... First, the idea of the virtue of selfishness is that we should question the "virtue of self-sacrifice". Really what she means is "the virtue of self-actualization". The idea is that the idea that we should all somehow do what we don't want (being selfless) is what she attacks, and her argument makes perfect sense. Second, someone who is part of the home/mortgage industry is not really a capitalist. The industry is full of subsidies, tax breaks, transfers, etc., and is home to Fannie and Freddie, which are government created, Enron-style entities that allow the government to do things "off the books". You're absolutely right that there is nothing the slightest bit similar between the mortgage industry (or most big, entrenched business in the US) and Rand's heroes...

miked 18y ago
>> First, the idea of the virtue of selfishness is that we should question the "virtue of self-sacrifice". Really what she means is "the virtue of self-actualization". Good point. Rand called one of her books _The Virtue of Selfishness_, apparently either as a marketing idea or just to get a rise out of people (she seemed to enjoy controversy). "Self-actualization" is more new-agey, and she would probably have disliked it, but it's clear from her writing that that's exactly what she meant.

unalone 18y ago

Exactly! That's the problem with lots of her fans. I tried joining an Objectivist forum once - big mistake. I think the closest to a real Objectivist scene you get is a scene of entrepreneurs, actually.