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>If Apple actually was using the practices listed: refurb parts, lower warranty coverage, etc. is it really a propaganda campaign Yes. "Propaganda" simply mean

>If Apple actually was using the practices listed: refurb parts, lower warranty coverage, etc. is it really a propaganda campaign Yes. "Propaganda" simply means the dissemination of information (true or not) with motivation other than simply helping people to be informed. If the information is being put out in order to hurt Apple's reputation, it's propaganda. And that's generally not much to worry about if it comes from activist groups, corporations, and other sources with transparent biases, but when it's coming from a government (or government controlled media, which equates to the same thing), it's a different situation - especially in a climate where dissenting opinions are quashed. >Even evidence of a TV Show paying a celebrity to juice impact of their story is hardly evidence of government involvement. Except that the Chinese government has tremendous control over the media in China. Add to that the censorship of thousands of whatever Weibo calls "tweets", and it seems pretty obvious that government shenanigans are at work. >The only evidence I see of government influence is in the outrage against usury being directed at the makers of aspirational products, rather than the predatory lenders. That's the only evidence you can see? I would point out all of the other pieces of evidence in the article, but I feel like I'd be just copying and pasting large chunks of it into my comment. Maybe you should just reread it?

roc 14y ago
The big US media outlets were all caught-out covering up for the US government, pushing propaganda and sitting on stories in the lead-up to an actual war. So if any government involvement opens the door to play every story off as government controlled, were the Dateline/gas tank story, or the Toyota/stuck accelerator story, etc all government propaganda then? > "That's the only evidence you can see?" That's the only evidence I see, yes. I see lots of other things that might be a result of government involvement, but those things have plausible mundane motives as well. So I'm hesitant to identify them as definitive proof of a government plot. e.g. I would expect a Chinese consumer protection sort of program to single out Apple's involvement in any widespread activity for the same reason every western news outlet and blog singles out Apple's involvement in the same situations. Foxconn's labor conditions have always been overwhelmingly reported as an Apple problem, despite their near universal contracts across the industry. And this despite Apple being the only major player who's ever acknowledged problems or taken steps to improve things. This is done because Apple stories get attention to a degree that brings non-trivial monetary incentives. So I wouldn't see Chinese news organizations doing the same exact thing as necessarily evidence of a coordinated government smear campaign.
- mistercow 14y ago
  >if any government involvement There's the lynchpin right there. It's not just any government involvement. CCTV is a state-run broadcaster which is notorious for having its content directly controlled by the Chinese government. This isn't "sometimes the Chinese government leans on CCTV"; it's "the Chinese government exerts continuous editorial control over the content on CCTV." > I see lots of other things that might be a result of government involvement, but those things have plausible mundane motives as well. So I'm hesitant to identify them as definitive proof of a government plot. There seems to be some confusion about what constitutes "evidence". Evidence does not have to be definitive proof. The mere utterance of a statement on CCTV is evidence that that statement aligns with China's political goals. Add that to a whole bunch of weird shenanigans, like the weibo censorship thing, and you have a pretty suggestive picture.

roc 14y ago

The big US media outlets were all caught-out covering up for the US government, pushing propaganda and sitting on stories in the lead-up to an actual war. So if any government involvement opens the door to play every story off as government controlled, were the Dateline/gas tank story, or the Toyota/stuck accelerator story, etc all government propaganda then? > "That's the only evidence you can see?" That's the only evidence I see, yes. I see lots of other things that might be a result of government involvement, but those things have plausible mundane motives as well. So I'm hesitant to identify them as definitive proof of a government plot. e.g. I would expect a Chinese consumer protection sort of program to single out Apple's involvement in any widespread activity for the same reason every western news outlet and blog singles out Apple's involvement in the same situations. Foxconn's labor conditions have always been overwhelmingly reported as an Apple problem, despite their near universal contracts across the industry. And this despite Apple being the only major player who's ever acknowledged problems or taken steps to improve things. This is done because Apple stories get attention to a degree that brings non-trivial monetary incentives. So I wouldn't see Chinese news organizations doing the same exact thing as necessarily evidence of a coordinated government smear campaign.

mistercow 14y ago
>if any government involvement There's the lynchpin right there. It's not just any government involvement. CCTV is a state-run broadcaster which is notorious for having its content directly controlled by the Chinese government. This isn't "sometimes the Chinese government leans on CCTV"; it's "the Chinese government exerts continuous editorial control over the content on CCTV." > I see lots of other things that might be a result of government involvement, but those things have plausible mundane motives as well. So I'm hesitant to identify them as definitive proof of a government plot. There seems to be some confusion about what constitutes "evidence". Evidence does not have to be definitive proof. The mere utterance of a statement on CCTV is evidence that that statement aligns with China's political goals. Add that to a whole bunch of weird shenanigans, like the weibo censorship thing, and you have a pretty suggestive picture.