6 ms·

The government is not bad at code because of lobbying, they're bad at code because of fluctuating budgets, low salaries, and ridiculous processes.

• clarkevans 14y ago
  Yet, Government programs have excellent customer service as compared to corporate equivalents. I use one example: student loan servicing. My loans were serviced by the largest company in the business for years, it was pure torture. When the department of education offered to assume the loans, I was happy to have the pain gone. They have been absolutely lovely to work with, clear, transparent and... helpful.
  • theorique 14y ago
    some government programs have excellent customer service as compared to some corporate equivalents I am sure we could find counterexamples here.
    • MatthewPhillips 14y ago
      Ever been to the DMV?
      • alistairSH 14y ago
        Yes. In the last decade or so, the Virginia DMV has been painless for typical tasks. Most common tasks can be performed online - registration, license renewal, even obtaining titles after paying off loans (assuming the dealer/bank held the title electronically). The few times I've had to show up in person, I've been in and out in 30 minutes or less.
      • imjared 14y ago
        DMV in the District had a pretty long line but was fine otherwise. The biggest problem I saw was people who had not read the provided information/required materials in advance of coming then started arguing or pleading their case.
        • axusgrad 14y ago
          You get problems when the employees cannot interpret the rules correctly, though. For example, proof of residency can be utility bill from the last 60 days, OR a DC property tax bill, and they reject a current DC property tax bill that wasn't issued in the last 60 days.
      • jimmaswell 14y ago
        I've been to the DMV to get an ID and it wasn't bad at all. The worst I've seen happen to other people is a long line. What are the big problems people apparently have with the DMV all the time? I'm from NY if that makes a difference.
        • mjn 14y ago
          Most Texas DMVs are hugely understaffed, I assume deliberately because they don't want to fund more staff, so the wait is generally long, like 2-3 hours long, and the facilities you're waiting in are old and poorly maintained. However, that's pretty TX-specific; TX generally underprovisions government services. The CA DMV is much nicer, and you can even book a specific time online!
          • jff 14y ago
            The CA DMV's online booking is convenient, but it really becomes the only way to get service. I made an appointment for mid-afternoon to register my motorcycle. I was in and out in 15 minutes. When I had gone in 2 years ago to get my drivers license, I didn't know about making appointments. I spent 5 hours at the DMV that day.
            • dmckeon 14y ago
              For many CA DMV services, if one is a member of AAA, a AAA (CSAA) office can handle the process easily. This convenience or a single roadside service call can make the annual fee worthwhile (but check first if they can/will tow/service a motorcycle!)
          • jebblue 14y ago
            You can renew your license in Texas online every other cycle, the only reason it's every other is they want you to come in to refresh you photo every decade, so make an appointment.
            • mjn 14y ago
              Yeah, I do it online when I can, but I had to go in in person in 2011, and it wasn't particularly pleasant. I didn't know you could make an appointment; when I asked at the time you couldn't. Seems like there is now some kind of "get in line online" feature, though it's not available at all locations: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/driver_licensing_control/rolodex/search.asp http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/driver_licensing...
      • homosaur 14y ago
        Blame your city government. St. Louis City Hall houses the DMV and all other city offices and the service is stellar. I've yet to have a bad experience in over two dozen trips there.
        • ben1040 14y ago
          Stop telling people about that DMV branch in city hall! It's one of the best kept secrets in St Louis.
      • pnathan 14y ago
        my local dmv is excellent, no lines, no wait, just 2-3 old ladies happy to help. in a larger area, it's a 'pick a number' and wait drudgery. ymmv
      • gallerytungsten 14y ago
        There's an obvious distinction between state governments and the far greater competence of Federal agencies. As someone who works in a business that's heavily regulated at the local, state, and Federal level, I can tell you that the differences aren't subtle. (It will also vary quite a bit depending on the state and locality.)
      • smsm42 14y ago
        BTW, despite DMV being the common complaint, I've been dealing with DMV a number of times and never had a problem. Dealing with the IRS was somewhat nightmarish though - while I can't complaint about customer service per se (people I spoke to were polite and tried to help me within what they could) the processes and the transparency were quite Kafkaesque. Basically somehow IRS decided I owe them a ton of money, and I spent several months (not consecutively, just how long it took to be resolved) trying to find out why and how to make them realize it's not true. I never found the answer to the why question but when it got to the question of me owing them something like 17 dollars (there also were cents, I just don't remember the exact sum) I just paid it up to put the whole thing behind. I still don't know why exactly they wanted it and what was wrong (my return was pretty simple and I asked professionals and IRS service people, nobody had any idea).
        • LoganCale 14y ago
          I had a situation last year where the IRS sent me a notice that I owed something like $20,000 in taxes from a single 1099 they claimed I did not file. In fact, they had missed a decimal point on the 1099 and read something like $75,000 rather than the $750.00 that was on the 1099. After re-sending them copies of the 1099 and all the data I had on what I filed, they responded saying the matter was settled and apologized for the inconvenience, but I'm still bothered by the fact that had that decimal place error been my own fault, I would have been fined $3,000 (according to the documents they sent) but when they make the mistake they just send a form letter apology.
          • csomar 14y ago
            You didn't lose any money, did you? They just made a mistake, nothing wrong with that. You can also make mistakes too. However, if they are going to be easy with it, many people are also going to make "mistakes".
        • pc86 14y ago
          I've had quite the opposite experience. Dealing with the DMV here in Pennsylvania is always a nightmare with long waits and dealing with employees who are rude and make it known they'd rather be getting a medical procedure than renewing your license or some other aspect of their job. I've only had to deal with the IRS in an official capacity twice and both times (while a PITA for the reason I had to deal with them) the people with whom I spoke were exceedingly polite, helpful, and most importantly knowledgeable about what they were helping me with. I say this not to say that you're wrong by any means, just to offer another anecdote.
      • sixothree 14y ago
        My DMV provides excellent customer service. You sign in and get a number and are routed quickly and appropriately.
      • Lagged2Death 14y ago
        DMV offices in many states are actually run as private businesses under contract to the state, not by the state government directly. In my state, actual government offices are generally less seedy looking, better staffed, and friendlier than the universally-privately-run DMV offices are. Deputy Registrars are independent contractors and are selected on a competitive basis as described in the Ohio Administrative Code and RFP. Deputy Registrars receive service fees of $3.50 for each vehicle, driver license and ID card transaction; and $0.90 for each vision screening performed. All fees are established in accordance with the Ohio Revised Code. Contracts are generally for two or three years per Section 4503.03 of the Ohio Revised Code. http://bmv.ohio.gov/rfp.stm http://bmv.ohio.gov/rfp.stm All that said, the private contractors do get the job done, but they do it in a way that's efficient with employee time, not in a way that's efficient with customer time.
      • krschultz 14y ago
        DMV in New Jersey is great. It really is. Completely painless for everything I've done there including getting a license, buying/selling cars, trailer registration, etc. DMV in Connecticut is horrific. One of the worse "customer service" experience. Which says to me, all of the reflexive "DMV sucks" comments are missing the real question - why does it suck in some states and not others?
        • tanzam75 14y ago
          The DMV in New Jersey is not great. It is, however, better than it was ten years ago. It also depends greatly on which office you go to. Trenton is, unsurprisingly, horrible.
      • yyqux 14y ago
        Yes, I went to the DMV in Illinois to get my license and managed to complete the eyesight, written and driving tests and walk out the door with my new license in maybe an hour and a half. I didn't even have an appointment. I'm aware this isn't the case in all states, but that says more about the priorities and competence of the people running those governments than it does anything else. Unfortunately a lot of people seem resigned to the idea that things are going to be run poorly and don't even bother punishing the politicians who are shirking their responsibility of administration and blaming their own failures on some abstract idea that government is always inefficient.
      • r00fus 14y ago
        I just recently went to my DMV in sunny CA to get my DL renewed (I made an appointment as without one it's literally half a day in lines). I had slated 2hrs of non-billable time on my calendar, but I was out in 15m - with the to/fro latency, it was 45m total. Good government service.
      • guelo 14y ago
        I'd say DMV's customer service is better than Comcasts's or Verizon's.
      • yoshamano 14y ago
        Here in Michigan we have the Secretary of State's Office http://www.michigan.gov/sos/ http://www.michigan.gov/sos/ Service wise they do a pretty good job. They've spent the past decade or so beefing up their online and automated services. In most cases you don't even need to go to an actual office if you're dealing with a license or plate renewal.
    • hkuo 14y ago
      In my experience, I would tend to agree that customer service from the government is generally better than corporations, from the DMV (though states my vary), County Clerk Recorders, Passport offices and even the IRS, and they generally seem happier than customer service folk at corporations who read verbatim from support guide trees and are incentivized to do what's in the best interests of the company rather than you.
      • Retric 14y ago
        Yea, I find the DMV surprisingly helpful. The old saying 'Good enough for government work' used to mean over engineered and built to last, now it's a euphemism for how much you can get away with when outsourcing government work.
      • talmand 14y ago
        In my experience of living in four different US states that the quality of customer service in government departments varies from locale to locale and even department to department, just like in corporations. My visit to the DMV here in Texas was quick and easy but the visit to the DMV in Las Vegas was such a maddening experience I'm surprised anyway bothers to get a drivers license in the first place. In the office if someone announced they were going to the DMV we would assume their inability to escape and start looking for a replacement. I heard stories of a guy that got in line as the foundation was being poured for the DMV and he's still there to this day, fifth in line. I think you probably get the point.
    • JadeNB 14y ago
      The INS (err, BCIS, err, USCIS --a great sign of a well run institution is how many times it needs to change its name cough Xfinity) comes to mind. They are the most horrifying bureaucracy with which I have ever dealt.
• navait 14y ago
  The IRS was recruiting for interns at my university recently, who could eventually become full time workers. However, I found that at best I could enter as a GS-9, and those were positions with 5 years of expirience. The best salary I could get from that was $53,000 in NYC. Even the lowest offers my friends were getting were $60k in a low-cost area. If the government was able to fund it's IT operations at market rates, or pay outside the GS we'd all be much better off. I don't know about the federal level but my state relies on outside contractors to make web applcations, who mostly do a half-assed job and disappear when maintenance becomes a problem.
  • cbs 14y ago
    The government doesn't do anything at market rates. They employ below market rates, and contract external companies above market rates. This is (unfortunately) by design.
    • reverend_gonzo 14y ago
      For what its worth, government jobs are also a bit more secure and generally provide pensions and other benefits. Whether those benefits are worth a decreased salary depends on the individual.
      • jdotjdot 14y ago
        Unfortunately, the pensions are largely gone the way of life 401(k)s, and with the furloughs that have been coming due to Congressional instability, those things are not really that true anymore.
    • adamc 14y ago
      Why do you say "by design"? Whose design?
      • niggler 14y ago
        A certain group of politicians want to replace all government functions with private contractors, and most of those are captured by various lobbying groups representing said contractors.
• JPKab 14y ago
  The government doesn't pay low salaries to coders, (remember, all they really need are CRUD apps. This isn't rocket science), its just HORRIBLE at hiring. Rather than leaving any hiring decision to anyone who knows the issue at hand, hiring is done based on a process which is optimized to be legally unimpeachable. When government succeeds, nobody gets credit, but when they get sued, its cover your ass time. This is why ALL government processes, including hiring, are first and foremost about CYA.
  • Periodic 14y ago
    I've been able to witness some of this in the State of California. This system is designed to try to prevent the government from overspending on software. They can always point to a public RFP and open bids if anyone objects. However, it is not designed to produce the best value for the state. First the RFP has to be written, which itself is a very political process and may have been initiated by a contractor/sales-person convincing someone they need the software or process in question. They'll often help write the RFP if you let them. These RFPs are often signed off on by non-technical people who are not qualified to really understand the technical details. Then the state has to get multiple bids. Sometimes the RFP is written so specifically that many options are excluded. For example, I've seen an RFP that required the state pay for the software. The way it was worded excluded an OSS contracting company from providing support for a Linux solution. A more public example is the LA School District looking for computers for their students. They are required to support both a keyboard and touch, which is prime market for Windows Surface devices. It could theoretically go to something like an iPad, but it makes it very hard for laptop makers to compete. Finally the state is required to take the lowest bid that meets the requirements of the RFP. To reject a bid the state has to show that it does not meet the requirements. They can't simply take something that is better value, they have to take the cheapest solution that meets the minimum requirements.