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How about: - Ability to lead a group of experienced java developers Unless you can prove that X year is a lot better than X/2 or X/4 years and someone with X/

How about: - Ability to lead a group of experienced java developers Unless you can prove that X year is a lot better than X/2 or X/4 years and someone with X/2 years couldn't possibly do the job. And if you want to wean out those that only read Java 101. Simply state that you require "work experience with java", or "leadership experience with java developers" or "java certification".

jiggy2011 14y ago
As far as I can tell you would only have to show that you weren't basing your hiring on stereotypes. So in the example given, asking for someone who has held a driving license for 10 years to filter out younger drivers. That has a subtle difference to asking for X years of Java experience or whatever. Whether this is a good metric is a separate issue, but I am somewhat doubtful that this is illegal.
- Peroni 14y ago
  More appropriate example: Developer A - Works for BigCorporate as a ruby dev, left university 5 years ago Developer B - Works for the same BigCorporate as a ruby dev, left university 4 years ago If BigCorporate decided to advertise a new ruby role that specified a minimum of 5 years experience, would Developer B be less capable of fulfilling the role? Technically Developer B is under-qualified as a direct result of their age.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    Not necessarily, much harder to prove a direct link to age. It's plausible that Developer B had more experience due to either not going to university and working as a ruby dev , or perhaps doing freelance ruby work whilst at university. It's also plausible that Developer A worked for a corporation as a Java/Python/Whatever dev for X years and would not qualify despite being older. So it doesn't necessarily discriminate based on a person's age, any more than requiring a university degree will generally discriminate against people under 21. In the driving license example, you must be 17 or older to hold a driving license in the UK. Therefor by requiring 10 years of holding one you are literally barring any person under 27 from the job.
- hmottestad 14y ago
  Hmmm. From oxford dic: a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing Now let us apply the definition. Particular type of person: experienced person oversimplified idea: 10 years is a minimum to be experienced False if you can find 1 person with 9 years who would also be considered an experienced person or if you can find 1 person with 11 years that would not be considered experienced.
16s 14y ago
When I had formal HR training, I was told to never use the phrase "ability to" in job descriptions... rather we should use the term "experience with". Anyone can assert that they have the ability to lead, but fewer can demonstrate that they have experience with leading. I know it sounds silly, but a few words can make a large difference.

jiggy2011 14y ago

As far as I can tell you would only have to show that you weren't basing your hiring on stereotypes. So in the example given, asking for someone who has held a driving license for 10 years to filter out younger drivers. That has a subtle difference to asking for X years of Java experience or whatever. Whether this is a good metric is a separate issue, but I am somewhat doubtful that this is illegal.

Peroni 14y ago
More appropriate example: Developer A - Works for BigCorporate as a ruby dev, left university 5 years ago Developer B - Works for the same BigCorporate as a ruby dev, left university 4 years ago If BigCorporate decided to advertise a new ruby role that specified a minimum of 5 years experience, would Developer B be less capable of fulfilling the role? Technically Developer B is under-qualified as a direct result of their age.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  Not necessarily, much harder to prove a direct link to age. It's plausible that Developer B had more experience due to either not going to university and working as a ruby dev , or perhaps doing freelance ruby work whilst at university. It's also plausible that Developer A worked for a corporation as a Java/Python/Whatever dev for X years and would not qualify despite being older. So it doesn't necessarily discriminate based on a person's age, any more than requiring a university degree will generally discriminate against people under 21. In the driving license example, you must be 17 or older to hold a driving license in the UK. Therefor by requiring 10 years of holding one you are literally barring any person under 27 from the job.
hmottestad 14y ago
Hmmm. From oxford dic: a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing Now let us apply the definition. Particular type of person: experienced person oversimplified idea: 10 years is a minimum to be experienced False if you can find 1 person with 9 years who would also be considered an experienced person or if you can find 1 person with 11 years that would not be considered experienced.

16s 14y ago

When I had formal HR training, I was told to never use the phrase "ability to" in job descriptions... rather we should use the term "experience with". Anyone can assert that they have the ability to lead, but fewer can demonstrate that they have experience with leading. I know it sounds silly, but a few words can make a large difference.