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While I agree with your overall message, the > (...) death march should be the norm. Meaning, 20-somethings should be working 80 hour weeks on a regular basis

by dexen 14y ago

While I agree with your overall message, the > (...) death march should be the norm. Meaning, 20-somethings should be working 80 hour weeks on a regular basis and projects should be shipped at the soonest possible moment it's even remotely feasible to do so. has got me puzzled: in my (limited) experience and from what I've read, a death march is exactly the opposite of shipping early. The usual story goes: a deadline looms, or a milestone slips, a middle manager decides to whip up his team instead of reporting it. Overworked team members can't meet another deadline, the client and/or upper management is kept in the dark about the problem, no extension of deadlines for sake of good metrics, rinse and repeat. ``It is done when it is done'' and shipping early is a panacea, not a cause of the problem.

Retric 14y ago
All it takes is unrealistic deadlines and you end up with a death march. Unfortunately, some people game the system and assume burning people out is worth it.
InclinedPlane 14y ago
Death march is often the norm, and when more effort is needed the only option is a super death march or just giving up. And yes, it's not a good way to work. Nor is it even a fast way to work. It's a an equilibrium point that is reached when certain initial conditions in regard to the value that is placed on the appearance of work and dedication are higher than craftsmanship et al is valued. For people who are immersed in that world view it seems perfectly logical that adding more hours worked will make everything better. But the paradox is that it doesn't, it often makes things worse, for a whole laundry list of reasons. People become physically and emotionally exhausted by the pace, there's no room for higher level improvements which are often the only way to achieve orders of magnitude gains in efficiency, productivity, and quality. There are a handful of companies that do things right and at those companies employees tend to stick around for not just a few years but decades and the products they make tend to have an outsized impact on the industry (valve, blizzard, 37signals, pixar, etc.) But it's still so hard to fight against the conventional wisdom.

by dexen 14y ago

Retric 14y ago

All it takes is unrealistic deadlines and you end up with a death march. Unfortunately, some people game the system and assume burning people out is worth it.

InclinedPlane 14y ago

Death march is often the norm, and when more effort is needed the only option is a super death march or just giving up. And yes, it's not a good way to work. Nor is it even a fast way to work. It's a an equilibrium point that is reached when certain initial conditions in regard to the value that is placed on the appearance of work and dedication are higher than craftsmanship et al is valued. For people who are immersed in that world view it seems perfectly logical that adding more hours worked will make everything better. But the paradox is that it doesn't, it often makes things worse, for a whole laundry list of reasons. People become physically and emotionally exhausted by the pace, there's no room for higher level improvements which are often the only way to achieve orders of magnitude gains in efficiency, productivity, and quality. There are a handful of companies that do things right and at those companies employees tend to stick around for not just a few years but decades and the products they make tend to have an outsized impact on the industry (valve, blizzard, 37signals, pixar, etc.) But it's still so hard to fight against the conventional wisdom.