6 ms·

"Cellular connectivity is provided by the SM5100B GSM Module...". Meh. No way a DYI. It's like you assemble your desktop PC from pieces like motherboard and pow

by abbot2 14y ago

"Cellular connectivity is provided by the SM5100B GSM Module...". Meh. No way a DYI. It's like you assemble your desktop PC from pieces like motherboard and power supply and say that you built a DYI PC.

XorNot 14y ago
You did in that case. It'd be ridiculous to try and build a cellphone, the not use the all-in-one chip solutions that are out there.
- abbot2 14y ago
  Actually it is not ridiculous. There is a project which is much more a DYI then this one. Enjoy: http://wush.net/trac/rangepublic http://wush.net/trac/rangepublic (OpenBTS).
  - noselasd 14y ago
    Same with osmocom.org (their site is down atm. though), but they've among many things built a GSM base band stack, running on real phones. While certainly not intended for every day use, it's very handy to atleast have something for research and learning where you can access all the protocol layers. Just imagine the TCP/IP world if no one could ever send/receive any packet/frame/bits/protocol below the application layer.(i.e. TCP/UDP/IP/Ethernet was just a black box on a silicon chip). That's basically the GSM world, at least until the osmocom guys made their own stack, running on cheap and old nokia phones.
- alan_cx 14y ago
  The all in one chip virtually is the cell phone. Its like buying a house, fitting the doors and windows and claiming you built the house. I cant see this as DIY at all, but equally, its not a bought phone. More kit phone than DIY phone.
rtpg 14y ago
Sure, but it would be a cool project to build up a nice phone environment using this module. If anything, this would be more akin to saying "I'm using hardware features on my microprocs to do this neat thing". Not amazing engineering. On a related note, does anyone know if we can get these modules to do data? Or if there's a cheaper version of these modules?
- abbot2 14y ago
  I did a quick peek at their electronics schematics. Well, believe it or not, but it looks like designing a laser-cut custom wooden case for this phone took much more effort than the electronics part. So, returning to my analogy: you are building a DYI PC because you laser-cut a custom case for the off-the-shelf parts you purchased. If this is the level of DYI to be amazed of on this site, I'm completely confused.
  - ryanmolden 14y ago
    I posted this not so much because I was amazed by the thing itself or thought it represented some pinnacle of "true" DIY, but more so because I like the idea of making things that were once far out of reach of anyone but serious hackers into something that a broader collection of people could feasibly tackle. It isn't quite there yet, but it is due to people like this that it will be, one day. You could nitpick all day about how most anything isn't truly DIY unless you mine/refine all your own materials and create your electronics from first principles, but that starts to get a bit silly. More generally, I am a believer in the idea I first read from Clay Shirky that as more people get involved in an area average quality goes down but innovation goes up a lot as you get lots of people trying lots of new things, which in the end is only goodness. Except, perhaps, for those that prefered it remain elite so they could feel special (not saying this is you, but I see this attitude in a lot of pioneers in areas that later become more mainstream).
- dan1234 14y ago
  The GSM module supports GPRS and TCP/IP via AT commands[1] so it should be possible to get some data going. [1]https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Cellular%20Modules/CEL-09533-TCPIP-APPNOTES-V1.1.pdf https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Cellular%20Modules/CEL-0...
mich41 14y ago
Since it seems to be backed by MIT, I also kinda hoped to see an independent GSM stack and not just some COTS baseband attached to a COTS MCU.
- ovi256 14y ago
  To use it legally on real networks, that independent stack would have to be validated by the FCC, which is a big obstacle for a DIY project.
  - benjamincburns 14y ago
    I'm a former DIY Cellphone hacker, and builder of several commercial GSM telemetry systems... Even using an integrated module you'll still run into FCC certification issues. Then there's PTCRB certs, CTIA membership, and carrier certifications. Of course even if you have the money you'll realize that all of these things have been done to the integrated module (which you haven't modified) before it ever hit the market. OpenCell - my 2008 entry into the DIY cell phone game: http://web.archive.org/web/20080709054225/http://www.widgetry.org/ http://web.archive.org/web/20080709054225/http://www.widgetr...
- fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
  Fortunately, someone stopped them from re-inventing wheels, axles, GSM stacks, etc.
  - iso8859-1 14y ago
    GSM is the definition of phone. Why not just call it "DIY handset" if that is what you are really doing yourself?
anigbrowl 14y ago
True, but PC assembly vs black box computers spawned an entire industry and and have kept component prices low even for end consumers. I had to replace a hard disk recently and am still bemused by my ability to purchase a new server-grade 2TB drive for $125.
spullara 14y ago
DIY
mellis 14y ago
As the person who made the phone, I think this is an interesting question. Do we say that Apple doesn't build computers themselves because they buy the CPU from Intel? Or because they use Qualcomm transceivers (and lots of other off-the-shelf components) in their phones? On the other hand, we probably wouldn't say someone made a phone if they just put it into a different enclosure. I can say that I spent a lot of time selecting all the components, putting together the schematic, routing the board, and writing the UI software. (All of that took a lot longer than laser-cutting the case.) Of course, it probably took a lot more work than that to create the GSM module. But that's also true of the microcontroller I'm using, the LCD, even the battery. Just about everything is built on top of the work of others (see the Toaster Project for an example of how hard it is to do otherwise). Interestingly, this critique hasn't really come up from the people I've worked with to build the phone. I explain the function of the GSM module (and the rest of the components) but after putting it all together, people don't seem to think of the phone as just a box for the module -- in part, I'd argue, because they realize how many other things are in there too. Again, though, there's a fundamental question here that I'm trying to explore with my research: what does it mean to do it for yourself?
- blhack 14y ago
  Don't listen to these people. This argument is old, and tired. It's the same as: "I don't code python, that isn't a real language, it does everything for you, unlike C!" Really? Does everything for you? Good to know that you built your own transistors from scratch via materials that you mined out of the ground, while naked, using only tools that you scavenged out of the forest, and that you came up with the entire process yourself. Seriously, this is cool.
  - bradleysmith 14y ago
    Well said.
fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
Who cares, phones are interesting to people because they enable communication with others. Phone projects like this are interesting because they enable people who wouldn't ordinarily be able to build a cell phone, to build a cell phone.
DanBC 14y ago
"Wait, you said you programmed this yourself, but I noticed that you're using c and some c libraries. That's not DIY! And you're using a compiler. That's also cheating! You should really be flicking toggle switches and pushing a button to enter the hex values directly."

by abbot2 14y ago

XorNot 14y ago

You did in that case. It'd be ridiculous to try and build a cellphone, the not use the all-in-one chip solutions that are out there.

abbot2 14y ago
Actually it is not ridiculous. There is a project which is much more a DYI then this one. Enjoy: http://wush.net/trac/rangepublic http://wush.net/trac/rangepublic (OpenBTS).
- noselasd 14y ago
  Same with osmocom.org (their site is down atm. though), but they've among many things built a GSM base band stack, running on real phones. While certainly not intended for every day use, it's very handy to atleast have something for research and learning where you can access all the protocol layers. Just imagine the TCP/IP world if no one could ever send/receive any packet/frame/bits/protocol below the application layer.(i.e. TCP/UDP/IP/Ethernet was just a black box on a silicon chip). That's basically the GSM world, at least until the osmocom guys made their own stack, running on cheap and old nokia phones.
alan_cx 14y ago
The all in one chip virtually is the cell phone. Its like buying a house, fitting the doors and windows and claiming you built the house. I cant see this as DIY at all, but equally, its not a bought phone. More kit phone than DIY phone.

rtpg 14y ago

Sure, but it would be a cool project to build up a nice phone environment using this module. If anything, this would be more akin to saying "I'm using hardware features on my microprocs to do this neat thing". Not amazing engineering. On a related note, does anyone know if we can get these modules to do data? Or if there's a cheaper version of these modules?

abbot2 14y ago
I did a quick peek at their electronics schematics. Well, believe it or not, but it looks like designing a laser-cut custom wooden case for this phone took much more effort than the electronics part. So, returning to my analogy: you are building a DYI PC because you laser-cut a custom case for the off-the-shelf parts you purchased. If this is the level of DYI to be amazed of on this site, I'm completely confused.
- ryanmolden 14y ago
  I posted this not so much because I was amazed by the thing itself or thought it represented some pinnacle of "true" DIY, but more so because I like the idea of making things that were once far out of reach of anyone but serious hackers into something that a broader collection of people could feasibly tackle. It isn't quite there yet, but it is due to people like this that it will be, one day. You could nitpick all day about how most anything isn't truly DIY unless you mine/refine all your own materials and create your electronics from first principles, but that starts to get a bit silly. More generally, I am a believer in the idea I first read from Clay Shirky that as more people get involved in an area average quality goes down but innovation goes up a lot as you get lots of people trying lots of new things, which in the end is only goodness. Except, perhaps, for those that prefered it remain elite so they could feel special (not saying this is you, but I see this attitude in a lot of pioneers in areas that later become more mainstream).
dan1234 14y ago
The GSM module supports GPRS and TCP/IP via AT commands[1] so it should be possible to get some data going. [1]https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Cellular%20Modules/CEL-09533-TCPIP-APPNOTES-V1.1.pdf https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Cellular%20Modules/CEL-0...

mich41 14y ago

Since it seems to be backed by MIT, I also kinda hoped to see an independent GSM stack and not just some COTS baseband attached to a COTS MCU.

ovi256 14y ago
To use it legally on real networks, that independent stack would have to be validated by the FCC, which is a big obstacle for a DIY project.
- benjamincburns 14y ago
  I'm a former DIY Cellphone hacker, and builder of several commercial GSM telemetry systems... Even using an integrated module you'll still run into FCC certification issues. Then there's PTCRB certs, CTIA membership, and carrier certifications. Of course even if you have the money you'll realize that all of these things have been done to the integrated module (which you haven't modified) before it ever hit the market. OpenCell - my 2008 entry into the DIY cell phone game: http://web.archive.org/web/20080709054225/http://www.widgetry.org/ http://web.archive.org/web/20080709054225/http://www.widgetr...
fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
Fortunately, someone stopped them from re-inventing wheels, axles, GSM stacks, etc.
- iso8859-1 14y ago
  GSM is the definition of phone. Why not just call it "DIY handset" if that is what you are really doing yourself?

anigbrowl 14y ago

True, but PC assembly vs black box computers spawned an entire industry and and have kept component prices low even for end consumers. I had to replace a hard disk recently and am still bemused by my ability to purchase a new server-grade 2TB drive for $125.

spullara 14y ago

DIY

mellis 14y ago

As the person who made the phone, I think this is an interesting question. Do we say that Apple doesn't build computers themselves because they buy the CPU from Intel? Or because they use Qualcomm transceivers (and lots of other off-the-shelf components) in their phones? On the other hand, we probably wouldn't say someone made a phone if they just put it into a different enclosure. I can say that I spent a lot of time selecting all the components, putting together the schematic, routing the board, and writing the UI software. (All of that took a lot longer than laser-cutting the case.) Of course, it probably took a lot more work than that to create the GSM module. But that's also true of the microcontroller I'm using, the LCD, even the battery. Just about everything is built on top of the work of others (see the Toaster Project for an example of how hard it is to do otherwise). Interestingly, this critique hasn't really come up from the people I've worked with to build the phone. I explain the function of the GSM module (and the rest of the components) but after putting it all together, people don't seem to think of the phone as just a box for the module -- in part, I'd argue, because they realize how many other things are in there too. Again, though, there's a fundamental question here that I'm trying to explore with my research: what does it mean to do it for yourself?

blhack 14y ago
Don't listen to these people. This argument is old, and tired. It's the same as: "I don't code python, that isn't a real language, it does everything for you, unlike C!" Really? Does everything for you? Good to know that you built your own transistors from scratch via materials that you mined out of the ground, while naked, using only tools that you scavenged out of the forest, and that you came up with the entire process yourself. Seriously, this is cool.
- bradleysmith 14y ago
  Well said.

fnordfnordfnord 14y ago

Who cares, phones are interesting to people because they enable communication with others. Phone projects like this are interesting because they enable people who wouldn't ordinarily be able to build a cell phone, to build a cell phone.

DanBC 14y ago

"Wait, you said you programmed this yourself, but I noticed that you're using c and some c libraries. That's not DIY! And you're using a compiler. That's also cheating! You should really be flicking toggle switches and pushing a button to enter the hex values directly."