9 ms·

E2 Visa for Startup Founders 101

53 points by funkymusic 14y ago

tosh 14y ago
Great write-up. Highly appreciated. I hope getting visas for tech founders will get easier going forward. Until then it's invaluable to be able to talk to and read from people who've done it before. Thanks a ton for taking your time to share this.
swohns 14y ago
Thanks for sharing this, any recommendations for a great immigration lawyer?
- jwb119 14y ago
  I'm biased, but I think Ting Ni is great (she's in Mountain View if you're in Silicon Valley, but I think remote is fine too). Usually very responsive on email as well: ting@tingnilaw.com. http://tingnilaw.com/profile.html http://tingnilaw.com/profile.html
danmaz74 14y ago
Very good post. Still, I hope we'll be more and more able to just build our startups in the EU.
- funkymusic 14y ago
  Things are happening ... see http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-13-262_en.htm http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-13-262_en.htm
harrel 14y ago
I had to apply for an EB5 visa, and since I was opening an office in non-TEA city, Austin, I have to put over 1 million + expenses for it. I'm still in the process of making enough to enter here and open a company, but its hard for people from India. India is not a treaty nation so tech-founders from here have an extremely hard time entering here to start a business.
- healthenclave 14y ago
  Yup bigger problem is getting the 100k investment in the first place. Most entrepreneur (even highly skilled ones) don't have that kind of luxury / investment to start-with (in developing countries). Also on this list : http://travel.state.gov/visa/fees/fees_3726.html http://travel.state.gov/visa/fees/fees_3726.html Iran is repeated twice is think it's a typo. Iran in EB1 and India is EB5
- surferbayarea 14y ago
  It's not that hard actually, there are many hacks possible with the current immigration system. I am a tech founder from India, been in US 10 years and funded by a top tier valley VC. My green card application has been in progress forever...So I simply created a LLC and transferred my H1 visa to that. Super low-cost solution, better/cheaper than getting a green card or E2 or any of these funky visas. And this isn't just a fluke, a number of people in a similar situation have applied this hack successfully....
  - healthenclave 14y ago
    Good info!! Thanks Do you have a blog / another way to reach you?
    - surferbayarea 14y ago
      surferbayarea@gmail.com
  - harrel 14y ago
    For H1B there is a big waiting list in the first place. For h1b visa, there are legal complications if you try to hack the system in-terms of ownership of the company you created and so on, there gotto be a sponsor for you to get your h1b approved. In some cases penalty could be big enough to get you deported and ban you for X amount of years. I cannot afford that. There are some drawbacks on taxation side too. I will not recommend to go that risky route if you're an entrepreneur. I explored this option first and my lawyer told me to back off.
funkymusic 14y ago
Thank you for your feedback! I was dealing with Matthew Schulz at Baker & McKenzie in Palo Alto (http://www.bakermckenzie.com/MattSchulz/ http://www.bakermckenzie.com/MattSchulz/) and it worked out pretty well.
- filip01 14y ago
  Thanks a lot! Could you perhaps explain this a bit more in detail: "The investment has to be made by the people applying for the visa." Let's say that we're a 2 year old company in a treaty country (EU) with ~$400k in the bank, founders have ~50% of the company. Not having a US company yet. Would this situation require some tweaks before applying for a E2 visa? Also: "Your employees can also move to the US under this visa." Under which circumstances can the (EU) employees transfer? The same time frame as the E2 holder? Would it be sufficient for only one of the two founders to get the E2 visa and let the other move as an employee?
  - funkymusic 14y ago
    In this case you could do a so-called flip bringing your assets from the EU to the US (contributing cash and assets). A drawback is everything depends on the main E2 visa holders - as long as this person holds the visa others can follow; if this person does not hold the visa any more, all attached immigration permits are gone as well (e.g. if the company goes out of business you can't stay in the US and look for a job).
    - filip01 14y ago
      Great, thanks. Do you know of a more formal way of expressing this "flip"? (Don't get any good Google hits).
      - shimms 14y ago
        It generally is referred to a scrip for scrip rollover (terms may vary based on your country of jurisdiction). You're essentially swapping your ownership in the foreign company for the equivalent ownership in a US company, and the US company becomes the sole shareholder of the foreign company.
robot 14y ago
Useful post. How was your pitch, particularly the question: How do you make money with Moosify?
- funkymusic 14y ago
  Three major revenue streams - Premium (In-App purchases), Affiliate & Ads. In the interview at the Consulate we've been really talking about details here I guess especially because we're a quite young startup.
  - devgutt 14y ago
    But the money that you showed in the bank was from investments, right? In that case, you have Austrian investors. If the investors were from US, the E2 visa would be still possible? What I mean is: if I came to US and close a deal with an investor, I'm still eligible to get this kind of visa.
    - funkymusic 14y ago
      Yes, the money has to be on your account. From what I remember 50% of the investors have to be nationals of the treaty country (not sure if this applies to the investment as well).
olivercameron 14y ago
I had one of these visas, and Hans has done a great job of describing the entire process. If anyone from the UK is looking to get an E2, email me and I can put you in touch with a great immigration lawyer in London.
- subsystem 14y ago
  I'm curious, approximately how much money are we talking in legal (and other) fees?
yupstak 14y ago
Considering all the annoyance around the startup visa (myself included), this actually seems like a pretty sweet deal. Are there any negatives that people might miss? Would love if someone could field a few questions... Can you travel in and out of the US as often as you want while on this visa? What would be the standard criteria for having the visa renewal approved? Would they need to see revenue growth? Would a stable stream of revenue be sufficient? Can you start other companies while on this visa? Can you invest in other companies on this visa? If you have existing employees from non-treaty countries, can they come? While on the visa, can you hire new employees from your home country and get them visas?
- healthenclave 14y ago
  The only BIG Negative is : The investment has to be made by the people applying for the visa.
  - filip01 14y ago
    What does this mean? That Hans (in this case) needs to be investing his personal assets in order to get a E2?
    - yupstak 14y ago
      As far as I know this is the case. In the end it is an 'investor' visa.
    - healthenclave 14y ago
      No investor money will do as long as you have > 50%. But it's only a valid option if you have already started your company in your home country and have had some funding and incorporated your company in the US. If you move to the US and get funding from a US VC / Angle then I think it gets tricky because it says : At least 50% of the investors must be nationals of the treaty country.
  - yupstak 14y ago
    Yeah that's really it. Still an improvement on the $1 million required for an EB-5 (although that gives you a green card). It feels like there could be some workarounds here. They explicitly say the money can't be from a loan, so that idea is out. But I've read of other techies getting an E2 for an investment just in the mid 5 figures range, so it mightn't need to go into the 6 figure range after all. Especially with a profitable software business where the profit margins are extremely high and the running costs are extremely low, I think they would lower the threshold.
tn13 14y ago
Brazil, Russia, India and China are excluded from this visa program which means more than half of world population is out.
- jwb119 14y ago
  EB5 is the equivalent for those countries as I understand it (I'm not an immigration attorney though).
jacques_chester 14y ago
Interesting. I think this will go very well for the US. As an aside, Australians have access to a H1B alternative, the E-3. The terms are generous and the quota has never been filled in any year. So if you want to be an employee of the US startup, tech firm etc, that's one to investigate.
- yupstak 14y ago
  >I think this will go very well for the US. FYI this visa has existed for over 60 years.
  - jacques_chester 14y ago
    I was under the impression it (the E2) was new. Oh well.

53 points by funkymusic 14y ago

tosh 14y ago

Great write-up. Highly appreciated. I hope getting visas for tech founders will get easier going forward. Until then it's invaluable to be able to talk to and read from people who've done it before. Thanks a ton for taking your time to share this.

swohns 14y ago

Thanks for sharing this, any recommendations for a great immigration lawyer?

jwb119 14y ago
I'm biased, but I think Ting Ni is great (she's in Mountain View if you're in Silicon Valley, but I think remote is fine too). Usually very responsive on email as well: ting@tingnilaw.com. http://tingnilaw.com/profile.html http://tingnilaw.com/profile.html

danmaz74 14y ago

Very good post. Still, I hope we'll be more and more able to just build our startups in the EU.

funkymusic 14y ago
Things are happening ... see http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-13-262_en.htm http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-13-262_en.htm

harrel 14y ago

I had to apply for an EB5 visa, and since I was opening an office in non-TEA city, Austin, I have to put over 1 million + expenses for it. I'm still in the process of making enough to enter here and open a company, but its hard for people from India. India is not a treaty nation so tech-founders from here have an extremely hard time entering here to start a business.

healthenclave 14y ago
Yup bigger problem is getting the 100k investment in the first place. Most entrepreneur (even highly skilled ones) don't have that kind of luxury / investment to start-with (in developing countries). Also on this list : http://travel.state.gov/visa/fees/fees_3726.html http://travel.state.gov/visa/fees/fees_3726.html Iran is repeated twice is think it's a typo. Iran in EB1 and India is EB5
surferbayarea 14y ago
It's not that hard actually, there are many hacks possible with the current immigration system. I am a tech founder from India, been in US 10 years and funded by a top tier valley VC. My green card application has been in progress forever...So I simply created a LLC and transferred my H1 visa to that. Super low-cost solution, better/cheaper than getting a green card or E2 or any of these funky visas. And this isn't just a fluke, a number of people in a similar situation have applied this hack successfully....
- healthenclave 14y ago
  Good info!! Thanks Do you have a blog / another way to reach you?
  - surferbayarea 14y ago
    surferbayarea@gmail.com
- harrel 14y ago
  For H1B there is a big waiting list in the first place. For h1b visa, there are legal complications if you try to hack the system in-terms of ownership of the company you created and so on, there gotto be a sponsor for you to get your h1b approved. In some cases penalty could be big enough to get you deported and ban you for X amount of years. I cannot afford that. There are some drawbacks on taxation side too. I will not recommend to go that risky route if you're an entrepreneur. I explored this option first and my lawyer told me to back off.

funkymusic 14y ago

Thank you for your feedback! I was dealing with Matthew Schulz at Baker & McKenzie in Palo Alto (http://www.bakermckenzie.com/MattSchulz/ http://www.bakermckenzie.com/MattSchulz/) and it worked out pretty well.

filip01 14y ago
Thanks a lot! Could you perhaps explain this a bit more in detail: "The investment has to be made by the people applying for the visa." Let's say that we're a 2 year old company in a treaty country (EU) with ~$400k in the bank, founders have ~50% of the company. Not having a US company yet. Would this situation require some tweaks before applying for a E2 visa? Also: "Your employees can also move to the US under this visa." Under which circumstances can the (EU) employees transfer? The same time frame as the E2 holder? Would it be sufficient for only one of the two founders to get the E2 visa and let the other move as an employee?
- funkymusic 14y ago
  In this case you could do a so-called flip bringing your assets from the EU to the US (contributing cash and assets). A drawback is everything depends on the main E2 visa holders - as long as this person holds the visa others can follow; if this person does not hold the visa any more, all attached immigration permits are gone as well (e.g. if the company goes out of business you can't stay in the US and look for a job).
  - filip01 14y ago
    Great, thanks. Do you know of a more formal way of expressing this "flip"? (Don't get any good Google hits).
    - shimms 14y ago
      It generally is referred to a scrip for scrip rollover (terms may vary based on your country of jurisdiction). You're essentially swapping your ownership in the foreign company for the equivalent ownership in a US company, and the US company becomes the sole shareholder of the foreign company.

robot 14y ago

Useful post. How was your pitch, particularly the question: How do you make money with Moosify?

funkymusic 14y ago
Three major revenue streams - Premium (In-App purchases), Affiliate & Ads. In the interview at the Consulate we've been really talking about details here I guess especially because we're a quite young startup.
- devgutt 14y ago
  But the money that you showed in the bank was from investments, right? In that case, you have Austrian investors. If the investors were from US, the E2 visa would be still possible? What I mean is: if I came to US and close a deal with an investor, I'm still eligible to get this kind of visa.
  - funkymusic 14y ago
    Yes, the money has to be on your account. From what I remember 50% of the investors have to be nationals of the treaty country (not sure if this applies to the investment as well).

olivercameron 14y ago

I had one of these visas, and Hans has done a great job of describing the entire process. If anyone from the UK is looking to get an E2, email me and I can put you in touch with a great immigration lawyer in London.

subsystem 14y ago
I'm curious, approximately how much money are we talking in legal (and other) fees?

yupstak 14y ago

Considering all the annoyance around the startup visa (myself included), this actually seems like a pretty sweet deal. Are there any negatives that people might miss? Would love if someone could field a few questions... Can you travel in and out of the US as often as you want while on this visa? What would be the standard criteria for having the visa renewal approved? Would they need to see revenue growth? Would a stable stream of revenue be sufficient? Can you start other companies while on this visa? Can you invest in other companies on this visa? If you have existing employees from non-treaty countries, can they come? While on the visa, can you hire new employees from your home country and get them visas?

healthenclave 14y ago
The only BIG Negative is : The investment has to be made by the people applying for the visa.
- filip01 14y ago
  What does this mean? That Hans (in this case) needs to be investing his personal assets in order to get a E2?
  - yupstak 14y ago
    As far as I know this is the case. In the end it is an 'investor' visa.
  - healthenclave 14y ago
    No investor money will do as long as you have > 50%. But it's only a valid option if you have already started your company in your home country and have had some funding and incorporated your company in the US. If you move to the US and get funding from a US VC / Angle then I think it gets tricky because it says : At least 50% of the investors must be nationals of the treaty country.
- yupstak 14y ago
  Yeah that's really it. Still an improvement on the $1 million required for an EB-5 (although that gives you a green card). It feels like there could be some workarounds here. They explicitly say the money can't be from a loan, so that idea is out. But I've read of other techies getting an E2 for an investment just in the mid 5 figures range, so it mightn't need to go into the 6 figure range after all. Especially with a profitable software business where the profit margins are extremely high and the running costs are extremely low, I think they would lower the threshold.

tn13 14y ago

Brazil, Russia, India and China are excluded from this visa program which means more than half of world population is out.

jwb119 14y ago
EB5 is the equivalent for those countries as I understand it (I'm not an immigration attorney though).

jacques_chester 14y ago

Interesting. I think this will go very well for the US. As an aside, Australians have access to a H1B alternative, the E-3. The terms are generous and the quota has never been filled in any year. So if you want to be an employee of the US startup, tech firm etc, that's one to investigate.

yupstak 14y ago
>I think this will go very well for the US. FYI this visa has existed for over 60 years.
- jacques_chester 14y ago
  I was under the impression it (the E2) was new. Oh well.