6 ms·

Obviously I can't not defend myself, but it's difficult when I'm already living off a student's budget. Do you have any recommendations or ideas for good and r

Obviously I can't not defend myself, but it's difficult when I'm already living off a student's budget. Do you have any recommendations or ideas for good and reasonable-priced attorneys?

jacquesm 14y ago
You really need a good lawyer. No other options there. I'm not sure if he's still active here but you could contact George Grellas (who is both nice, exceptionally knowledgeable and approachable) and ask him what to do, he was quite active here on HN for a while, 2 minutes of googling will locate him. 5 minutes of his time will be worth more than all the (well intentioned) advice you're going to get here. Without details nobody will be able to give you advice beyond 'get a lawyer' and I fully understand why you don't want to give out any more info here. The one bit of info I can give you, once you have a lawyer, give him all the information that you can find on this, don't leave anything that you feel is not relevant, a late surprise in a thing like this can be costly. Best of luck!
- throwaway10283 14y ago
  Thanks for the name! I'll look him up. And, obviously I didn't expect people to provide specific legal advice, but just in general how to handle these situations, and if anybody has actually been through it before.
  - jacquesm 14y ago
    Handling the situation is the easy part. Locate lawyer, give them all the relevant info, watch two lawyers exchange a bunch of letters and then hopefully it either goes away once the other party is convinced the case is baseless, or it will go to trial. Stop communicating directly with the plaintiff or their lawyers until you have a lawyer. The best defence is to make sure they realize that you can't pluck feathers from a frog. Any weaknesses you have should be offset by your contractual terms (assuming there was a contract). Since you say you were employed they would have to work very hard to prove malice on your part, especially since they decided to keep you on as long as they did. Any damage they claim you caused should be easy to prove for them, hard to defend against by you if it is to stick, but without more specifics that's unknown. For the record I have been the plaintiff in a case like this, where an employee decided to blackmail me and turn off a website overnight locking me out of the server. Needless to say that didn't end very well for said employee, not because I'm rich and he was weak but because he was a jerk that did something he never should have done: assume that blackmail is a viable option. In the end that one was resolved out-of-court by the time the defendants lawyer had a chance to talk some sense into the defendant.
    - wfunction 14y ago
      > "Needless to say that didn't end very well for said employee" Did you mean employer?
      - mitchellhislop 14y ago
        >"For the record I have been the plaintiff in a case like this, where an employee decided to blackmail me ..." I bet he meant employee.
        wfunction 14y ago
        Ah, my mistake, I misread the sentences; thanks.
- genwin 14y ago
  Let's be realistic. Beyond the initial consultation a good lawyer is incompatible with a student's budget. Sometimes life is grossly unfair and there's not much you can do about it. Throwaway may well end up owing the plaintiff. At least there's the option of bankruptcy to wipe out the debt.
jpdoctor 14y ago
> when I'm already living off a student's budget. So you don't have assets? And they're suing you for sport? If so, he's made a big mistake. You'll just declare bankruptcy if you lose, but some lawyer might well take your case for the sport of countersuing and a percentage of the take. Put another way: Your exposure is small and their's is large (since you've said they have big assets.) Somebody is going to want to chase this ambulance.
- throwaway10283 14y ago
  Yep. I think it's a combination of him showing his potential investors that they really handed it to this asshole kid who screwed up their company (obviously, the CEO wasn't at fault at all), and an attempt to just screw with me as much as possible. I already have contacted a bankruptcy attorney, and apparently you can file before there's a judgment against you. So, thanks! That's definitely reaffirming and on my radar :)
  - dhimes 14y ago
    Talk to a lawyer before pursuing this, but it may make you smile a bit in the midst of your worry so I'll post it here. You mentioned that you are living off of a student's budget. Does that mean you are a student? If so, did he hire you on a contractual basis? Meaning, without benefits, etc.? If so, you may have a play that will not only get you some $ but make him look absolutely incompetent in front of his investors. It's actually pretty easy to show (in some states anyway) that you should have been compensated as a full-time employee. MA, for instance, is very harsh on owners who hire 'contractors' who do the work that would normally be done by employees. Even if you have a written agreement to the contrary, the court could decide that you were in fact an employee and award you triple damages. My friend just lost a case like this. It absolutely stunned me (and her, for that matter). She fired an incompetent contractor, and the contractor turned around and sued. And won. It sent chills up my spine, but if it fits your case then it could work for you as a threat to embarrass him if not even for the money. But, ffs, talk to a good lawyer!
    - HarryHirsch 14y ago
joeblossom 14y ago
Have you looked into whether or not your school provides free legal services? My university's student government paid for two pretty awesome lawyers (through a student tax) which could be used for pretty much any legal matter (from starting up a business to criminal charges) for free. At the very least they can probably refer you to someone who can help you.
llopatin 14y ago
If you are a still an active student, check if your University has free legal counsel (usually provided by law students)
gcb0 14y ago
> living off a student's budget. assuming that's not just an analogy, most universities provide free (or almost free) legal consultation on campus.
gojomo 14y ago
As others mention, your school may have a free legal clinic, especially if it has an associated law school. If not, other schools in the area, or a city/municipality, may have a similar clinic. Many top firms have their lawyers do some 'pro bono' work; the key is to find the intermediaries (like law clinics) who can match you up. But also, when shopping for a lawyer you essentially get 15-60 minutes free with them as a pre-engagement discussion. You can learn a lot just by shopping around! And especially, you'll realize that lawyers vary a lot in their assessment of the issues and your options. (The 10th person you talk to may introduce yet another crucial point for a quick and low-cost resolution... so don't go with the 1st smooth talker!) You should prepare a written summary of the events from your perspective, to quickly get a potential advisor up to speed, and improve this summary over time when early conversations reveal important wrinkles.
BHSPitMonkey 14y ago
Are you a student? If so, most universities have free (included in your tuition/fees) student legal services, with lawyers you can meet with for free.
danielweber 14y ago
Lots of lawyers work on credit. They'll understand that you may be unable to pay right away.

Obviously I can't not defend myself, but it's difficult when I'm already living off a student's budget. Do you have any recommendations or ideas for good and reasonable-priced attorneys?

jacquesm 14y ago

You really need a good lawyer. No other options there. I'm not sure if he's still active here but you could contact George Grellas (who is both nice, exceptionally knowledgeable and approachable) and ask him what to do, he was quite active here on HN for a while, 2 minutes of googling will locate him. 5 minutes of his time will be worth more than all the (well intentioned) advice you're going to get here. Without details nobody will be able to give you advice beyond 'get a lawyer' and I fully understand why you don't want to give out any more info here. The one bit of info I can give you, once you have a lawyer, give him all the information that you can find on this, don't leave anything that you feel is not relevant, a late surprise in a thing like this can be costly. Best of luck!

throwaway10283 14y ago
Thanks for the name! I'll look him up. And, obviously I didn't expect people to provide specific legal advice, but just in general how to handle these situations, and if anybody has actually been through it before.
- jacquesm 14y ago
  Handling the situation is the easy part. Locate lawyer, give them all the relevant info, watch two lawyers exchange a bunch of letters and then hopefully it either goes away once the other party is convinced the case is baseless, or it will go to trial. Stop communicating directly with the plaintiff or their lawyers until you have a lawyer. The best defence is to make sure they realize that you can't pluck feathers from a frog. Any weaknesses you have should be offset by your contractual terms (assuming there was a contract). Since you say you were employed they would have to work very hard to prove malice on your part, especially since they decided to keep you on as long as they did. Any damage they claim you caused should be easy to prove for them, hard to defend against by you if it is to stick, but without more specifics that's unknown. For the record I have been the plaintiff in a case like this, where an employee decided to blackmail me and turn off a website overnight locking me out of the server. Needless to say that didn't end very well for said employee, not because I'm rich and he was weak but because he was a jerk that did something he never should have done: assume that blackmail is a viable option. In the end that one was resolved out-of-court by the time the defendants lawyer had a chance to talk some sense into the defendant.
  - wfunction 14y ago
    > "Needless to say that didn't end very well for said employee" Did you mean employer?
    - mitchellhislop 14y ago
      >"For the record I have been the plaintiff in a case like this, where an employee decided to blackmail me ..." I bet he meant employee.
      - wfunction 14y ago
        Ah, my mistake, I misread the sentences; thanks.
genwin 14y ago
Let's be realistic. Beyond the initial consultation a good lawyer is incompatible with a student's budget. Sometimes life is grossly unfair and there's not much you can do about it. Throwaway may well end up owing the plaintiff. At least there's the option of bankruptcy to wipe out the debt.

jpdoctor 14y ago

> when I'm already living off a student's budget. So you don't have assets? And they're suing you for sport? If so, he's made a big mistake. You'll just declare bankruptcy if you lose, but some lawyer might well take your case for the sport of countersuing and a percentage of the take. Put another way: Your exposure is small and their's is large (since you've said they have big assets.) Somebody is going to want to chase this ambulance.

throwaway10283 14y ago
Yep. I think it's a combination of him showing his potential investors that they really handed it to this asshole kid who screwed up their company (obviously, the CEO wasn't at fault at all), and an attempt to just screw with me as much as possible. I already have contacted a bankruptcy attorney, and apparently you can file before there's a judgment against you. So, thanks! That's definitely reaffirming and on my radar :)
- dhimes 14y ago
  Talk to a lawyer before pursuing this, but it may make you smile a bit in the midst of your worry so I'll post it here. You mentioned that you are living off of a student's budget. Does that mean you are a student? If so, did he hire you on a contractual basis? Meaning, without benefits, etc.? If so, you may have a play that will not only get you some $ but make him look absolutely incompetent in front of his investors. It's actually pretty easy to show (in some states anyway) that you should have been compensated as a full-time employee. MA, for instance, is very harsh on owners who hire 'contractors' who do the work that would normally be done by employees. Even if you have a written agreement to the contrary, the court could decide that you were in fact an employee and award you triple damages. My friend just lost a case like this. It absolutely stunned me (and her, for that matter). She fired an incompetent contractor, and the contractor turned around and sued. And won. It sent chills up my spine, but if it fits your case then it could work for you as a threat to embarrass him if not even for the money. But, ffs, talk to a good lawyer!
  - HarryHirsch 14y ago

joeblossom 14y ago

Have you looked into whether or not your school provides free legal services? My university's student government paid for two pretty awesome lawyers (through a student tax) which could be used for pretty much any legal matter (from starting up a business to criminal charges) for free. At the very least they can probably refer you to someone who can help you.

llopatin 14y ago

If you are a still an active student, check if your University has free legal counsel (usually provided by law students)

gcb0 14y ago

> living off a student's budget. assuming that's not just an analogy, most universities provide free (or almost free) legal consultation on campus.

gojomo 14y ago

As others mention, your school may have a free legal clinic, especially if it has an associated law school. If not, other schools in the area, or a city/municipality, may have a similar clinic. Many top firms have their lawyers do some 'pro bono' work; the key is to find the intermediaries (like law clinics) who can match you up. But also, when shopping for a lawyer you essentially get 15-60 minutes free with them as a pre-engagement discussion. You can learn a lot just by shopping around! And especially, you'll realize that lawyers vary a lot in their assessment of the issues and your options. (The 10th person you talk to may introduce yet another crucial point for a quick and low-cost resolution... so don't go with the 1st smooth talker!) You should prepare a written summary of the events from your perspective, to quickly get a potential advisor up to speed, and improve this summary over time when early conversations reveal important wrinkles.

BHSPitMonkey 14y ago

Are you a student? If so, most universities have free (included in your tuition/fees) student legal services, with lawyers you can meet with for free.

danielweber 14y ago

Lots of lawyers work on credit. They'll understand that you may be unable to pay right away.