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$10,000 Raised for PyLadies at PyCon 2013
- famousactress 14y agoSo, if I was at a shop with a large recruiting budget trying hard to land new talent, and I was also specifically interested in fostering an environment the encouraged and promoted women in our industry.. I'd seriously consider writing a check for 10k and doubling the contribution today. Any takers?
- jmduke 14y agoAs a rational male programmer, I'd be quite impressed by such a move. Beyond the important social message that such an act fosters, it's just smart. Good companies want to hire good people. Great female programmers are in (relatively to male) low demand and a smart company would avail themselves of that.
- kawsper 14y ago> Great female programmers are in (relatively to male) low demand Why do you think that?
- moistgorilla 14y agoI think he meant low supply
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- jmduke 14y agoI completely agree, which is why I qualified it with 'relative to male programmers'. (I'm not saying that great female programmers shouldn't be in demand.)
- kmfrk 14y agoI'm surprised someone from a high-profile company has yet to come out of the blue and drop a five- or even six-figure amount. At least someone like Sheryl Sandberg. Maybe they should expand their reach and hit up the Rolodex? I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen a bigger reaction.
- ericabiz 14y agoI think this is great, and I'd like to add: If you are cash-poor, as many startups are, there may be other ways to contribute as well. I'm the CEO of a startup here in Austin that uses Python. A couple weeks ago, another post here on HN led me to PyLadies, where I sought out the local Austin chapter. Turns out Barbara (mentioned in the article) runs the PyLadies Austin group. I noticed one of their weekend workshops didn't have a space listed yet. Since I run a coworking space here in Austin (http://opportunityspace.com http://opportunityspace.com), I emailed Barbara and asked if she wanted to use our space for a meetup. She emailed back, super excited, and we're now hosting their Intro to Python workshop on April 6. (It's free for women in Austin who want to learn Python; RSVP here: http://www.meetup.com/PyLadies-ATX/events/99059532/ http://www.meetup.com/PyLadies-ATX/events/99059532/) There are many ways you can help and take the initiative. More smart coders benefit us all in this industry. Even if you don't have a whole lot of cash, I urge you to reach out to your local PyLadies chapter and see how you can help. Their website and chapter list is here: http://www.pyladies.com/ http://www.pyladies.com/
- bshaurette 14y agoThanks for promoting the workshop Erica! And thank you, again, for helping us out with the location. This class is going to be a huge success thanks to your generosity.
- pifflesnort 14y agoLet's pretend I'm at that shop with a large recruiting budget, and a $10k check is only an e-mail to accounting away. I also just watched a massive blow-up and bad press around Adria Richards, PyCon, and this issue in general. I'm naturally wary of my company being connected with or supporting these virulently negative forms of misogyny and feminism of which the entire donglegate episode seemed to spring. What would $10k would be funding, and the good press that would come of that? Reading http://www.pyladies.com/ http://www.pyladies.com/, they appear to put on study groups and other events, but their "Code of Conduct" is higher billed than an explanation of what PyLadies actually does with funding.
- pekk 14y agoDo you know anything about PyLadies? What led you to believe that PyLadies is about "virulent feminism" or is masterminding provocations?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- stefantalpalaru 14y agoMaybe he knows what Lynn Root did at last year's EuroPython[1][2] or how she complains about being only asked to talk about women issues[3] but when she got a spot in the lightning talk section she canceled it blaming the last day's "drama"[4]. [1] http://www.roguelynn.com/words/really/ http://www.roguelynn.com/words/really/ [2] http://www.roguelynn.com/words/a-memorable-europython-for-the-better/ http://www.roguelynn.com/words/a-memorable-europython-for-th... [3] http://www.roguelynn.com/words/my-un-talk-at-djangocon/ http://www.roguelynn.com/words/my-un-talk-at-djangocon/ [4] https://twitter.com/roguelynn/status/221217138688536577 https://twitter.com/roguelynn/status/221217138688536577
- pekk 14y agoI don't know Lynn Root, but I don't see anything here for any mature man to be upset about. If Lynn Root complains or does or doesn't give a lightning talk (on the basis of her feeling bad that day, or not having prepared or whatever) that might be some kind of faux pas but honestly, who gives a shit. People cancel lightning talks. It harms nobody. It certainly doesn't make everyone involved with PyLadies (e.g. Hynek Schlawack) into an Adria Richards feminist monster ruining your life. Tweet from your first link: "Sucked the marrow out of my osso bucco at dinner at #EuroPython. The waiter told me that I "will have very good orgasm." #Pyladies?" Please explain why it is not offensive for this guy to call upon PyLadies for an orgasm...
- niggler 14y agoIf you are really serious, you would contribute to or set up a grant program like Etsy did with Hacker School: http://www.etsy.com/hacker-grants http://www.etsy.com/hacker-grants
- tssva 14y agoI have had great female bosses, co-workers and employees who have brought great talent and ideas to the table. I have also had horrible ones. The ratio of good to bad has been the same as males. Given this why should I support organizations which encourage increased women in tech? How does it benefit my organization? I understand increasing the talent pool but this can be done by supporting organizations which encourage more of all people to enter tech fields.
- reallynosh1t 14y agoI would donate my big dongle.
- rmrfrmrf 14y agoso edgy.
- chill1 14y agoSeriously? Come on.. Even if you've only been half paying attention the last several days, you'd realize that this issue is quite serious and personal to a lot of people. If, when you saw this post, all that came to your mind was a smart ass comment.. Please, next time, keep it to yourself.
- Nordvind 14y agoI find your comment offensive, given that I've right of free speech, which is guaranteed by constitution.
- kmfrk 14y agoI find your understanding of "constitution" offensive.
- budde 14y agoThe First Amendment prohibits the government from passing a law that abridges or censors your right to speak publicly. It does not grant you the absolute right to say whatever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want, free of consequence.
- JshWright 14y agoHacker News has a constitution? Could you link me to it?
- illuminate 14y agoCan you just once read the Constitution you're attempting to quote?
- Nordvind 14y agoHow much of that's going to that "lady", who's been offended by eavesdropped private conversation and violating conference rules?
- RyanMcGreal 14y agoWhy am I not surprised that this post is drawing out the misogynists in tech? Ugh.
- SeanDav 14y agoIn the light of what happened at PyCon with Adria Richards and the whole internet explosion of nastiness and short sightedness from all sides I actually don't quite know what to think about "Women in Tech" I saw so much hate that I was ashamed to be a male and in tech, yet I also saw so much narrow minded reporting and deliberate distortion of events from many so called feminists and feminist activists (not all female btw) that a part of me would be quite happy if I never saw a female in tech again. We all lost in that affair - male, female, tech, non tech. A part of me doesn't even want to think about it again for some time until the dust has completely settled. I would rather not even see articles like this. A bigger part also realizes that there are real issues with sexism and would love to see more women in tech and understands that the only way that is going to happen is by honest and open discussion.
- pekk 14y agoIt's hard to understand how you could think that Adria Richards is representative of all "women in tech". It's also hard to understand why you take Adria's incident as such a severe personal affront to yourself that you not only seem to want PyLadies to bite the dust, but "a part of [you] would be quite happy if [you] never saw a female in tech again." Even a sane and moderate person can see in this post a suggestion that you would like to see women actively driven out of tech - all because you are offended about Adria Richards. With respect, please consider that your reaction to this may be strongly irrational and that the things you are saying as a result (and the Adria-unrelated places you are choosing to start a fight) may be making matters even worse.
- JonnieCache 14y agoHe didn't say it was a nice part of him. He was just being honest.
- pekk 14y agoThat is not an acceptable excuse for publicly saying that you wish women would not be in tech. It definitely doesn't make it any more rational to want to punish all women because you feel personally offended about the stupid actions of one person, which did not actually affect you in any way. If this pattern of feeling irrational resentments and using them to justify inflammatory public behavior is "just being honest" then Adria Richards was also "just being honest".
- orangethirty 14y agoAs a father and uncle who is cultivating an understanding of computers into three little girls I want to say that this is great. One of them likes embedded applications, other likes web, and the other likes video games. And I'm excited that the oldest one can code simple mods for Minecraft and get to show off in class (her fellow students play Minecraft).
- keepkalm 14y agoMy initial reaction was this is great, women are underrepresented in tech. Thoughts that came afterward: this is a horrible overreaction to what happened at PyCon over dongle-gate and this reinforces the boys club by making women a protected class (no pun intended).
- ubernostrum 14y agoPyLadies has existed for years, and the auction was announced and organized before PyCon even happened, and took place before the entire internet went apeshit. These are facts you may find useful in deciding how to view this event.
- keepkalm 14y agoOK, my point wasn't that PyLadies was hurting women, quite the opposite. My point was that raising that amount of money shows the amount of collective guilt that the group felt towards this protected minority. Which is what caused the initial over-reaction that cost the dongle jokers their jobs.
- pekk 14y agoWhy do you think this has anything to do with Adria Richards? PyLadies was receiving donations well before any of that blew up. If you want to argue that PyLadies is hurting women somehow then you are going to have to provide better evidence.
- keepkalm 14y agoOK, my point wasn't that PyLadies was hurting women, quite the opposite. My point was that raising that amount of money shows the amount of collective guilt that the group felt towards this protected minority. Which is what caused the initial over-reaction that cost the dongle jokers their jobs.
- tripleggg 14y agoThe reason we don't have more females programmers is because they have less interest in it and less aptitude for it on average. And this will never change. For my dense readers I'd like to clarify that this doesn't mean that every man is better at programming than every woman, just like saying that men are taller than women doesn't mean every man is taller than every woman. Back to the topic at hand - women are not as good at programming and also not as interested in it as men. If you find this sexist, don't like it, and don't want to accept it, take it up with the universe. Or to paraphrase Richard Feynman: You don't like it? Go somewhere else... to another universe, where the rules are more psychologically pleasing. There is no hostility toward women in technology. There is no "sexism." Just the opposite men are biologically predisposed to pampering women and our field is no exception. Men willing to pamper women is the only reason why initiatives like this "charity" event are even possible! Btw... Don't you ladies get offended that you are need of charity to make it in tech? Apparently not!
- r0sebush 14y agoWhat Ms. Richards has done to those 2 young men could have been much worse. She used her position in the developer/twitter community to intimidate and to cause harm to those 2 men. She knew what she was doing and the same outrage that Ms. Richards experienced, would have been the same outrage those 2 men would have received if what she did originally wasn't wrong. She could have said that they were talking about rape or molestation and it would have been her word against theirs. They would have been hauled into jail, considered guilty and their lives would have been ruined, even though they are innocent and practicing their natural right to speak to each other. She overheard a private conversation between 2 consenting adults and nothing was directed towards her or anybody else. She should have kept her mouth shut. Ms. Richards or anybody with similar capability or visibility, should never be trusted in any community or group. Is the not what any group or community needs, ever. Her actions were meant to intimidate, cause harm and censor a private conversation.
- pekk 14y agoWhat does that have to do with PyLadies?
- amix 14y agoPyCon had 500 women out of 2500 attendance. Gave away over $100,000 in financial aid. Gave away 2500 Raspberry Pi's. Thought kids to code. Raised $10,000 for the PyLadies. Gave permission to publish amazing online videos etc. And then you have these 3 idiots (and more online idiots) that steal the spotlight and everybody focuses on them. Sigh. Let's focus on the positive stuff!
- epsylon 14y agoI think at least two of them didn't want to be in the spotlight in the first place. And after what happened, probably the three of them.
- escaped_hn 14y agoI only saw 1 idiot (sans the online ones). Who were the other 2?
- martythemaniak 14y agoApparently sharing a joke with a friend now qualifies you as an "idiot".
- UnoriginalGuy 14y agoAnd not even an offensive joke either. They literally made a juvenile penis reference. Who here hasn't made one? Even made one today?
- gosukiwi 14y agoHaha, he said penis. /joke
- zaphar 14y agoMe. I don't think I've ever made one in a public setting. If I did it was long enough ago that I don't remember. Call me a prude if you want but it does mean that I will likely never be in the position of the two men who achieved infamy at pycon. I may achieve infamy for other reasons but not that one.
- AgathaTheWitch 14y agoI respect their intentions and I am sure they are doing good work. Regardless as a matter of principle I do not donate to organizations that discriminate on the basis of sex.
- pekk 14y agoTo my knowledge, PyLadies has not engaged in discrimination. It isn't discrimination to make groups which encourage minorities to code or get involved in the Python community or whatever. Men are not being hurt by the existence of PyLadies in any way.
- UnoriginalGuy 14y agoSo if I set up a "boys only" tech club or society, people wouldn't be screaming bloody murder, calling me sexist, and claiming that I was trying to keep women out of tech' and or reinforcing the glass ceiling? Because frankly, I cannot see that going down well at all...
- steveklabnik 14y agoFrom the front page of http://www.pyladies.com/ http://www.pyladies.com/ : > Anyone with an interest in Python is encouraged to participate! You're making an unfounded assumption that PyLadies is women only.
- UnoriginalGuy 14y agoFine, so what if I created something with the goal of: > We are an international mentorship group with a focus on helping more men become active participants and leaders in the Python open-source community. How do you think that would go down?
- dougnap 14y agoSimilar to how the Young Men's Christian Association (YMCA) went down, I would imagine... Or are you arguing that all organizations that have a focus on expanding the role of a minority in a community that are inclusive to all in that community should be shut down because you believe some people would complain about having one focused on the majority? That is some twisted and messed up logic there. http://wearebit.com/ http://wearebit.com/ has quite the presence as SXSW. Haven't heard similar complaints about that...
- joezhou 14y agoPyLadies are pretty cool, they host some amazing events! Thanks for the free food last year @pycon!
- cwgem 14y agoI notice a few comments scattered about various parts of this thread so I'll try and address as much as possible here. There seems to be confusion regarding the idea of a program to support female python developers. Why female developers? Why not male ones too? This is what is causing the confusion that there's some sort of discrimination happening. However that's not really the case, and you have to look at the whole picture to really see it. So, there's a problem of equality in the workplace as a general philosophy. Sexism, Ageism, Racism, you name it. Taking from a Japanese proverb "He who runs after two hares will catch neither". In this case there's more than two hares, there's quite a lot in fact. So we have to break the problem down into manageable components. In this case someone decided to take the women in tech approach to the problem and focus on it. I'd consider it like taking someone with knowledge of databases and let them work on the database specific problems. Now then, what exactly is the issue with women in the IT field? Up until the hiring chain and through the workplace experience, there are points to where women don't get the chance they should get. One reason is that people may not see engineering as a "female appropriate job", as though women should be working as secretaries or fashion designers. Another problem is fear. There is fear that going into a job a woman might get harassed or otherwise have difficulty fitting into a primarily male dominated environment. Start-ups for example often have laid back environments where the line between professional an personal gets somewhat fuzzy. Someone slips and lets out an inappropriate comment because they're having a conversation with another coworker which resembles a talk at a party, and are unaware that they're still in a professional environment. This becomes difficult. So you have women who are trying to get their foot in the door, but are not sure how. That's why we need groups like this. First off we need people to show support. We need people to say "hey women in IT is possible, here's some of us that are doing it". We also need men in on this too so they can be educated on what women in IT may have to deal with and know what to avoid. They're also needed to show that not all guys have this thing against women in IT and that things can work out for the better. Finally we also need it so that women can do networking with companies that are more aware of the issues that women deal with in the workplace, and actively work to figure out how to deal with it. This is why these sort of organizations need to be in place, and why they need to target women specifically. They need to see others like them working towards the same goal so they can achieve their dreams knowing they have support. Now with that in mind there is point to watch out for, and what I believe is a valid concern. That is that we don't want the women in IT movement to become a "women are better than men" deal, we want it to become a "women should have the same opportunities as men". Equality is our main goal here. However, because of the environment I've mentioned above, we need groups that specifically target women to help the transition towards a more equality friendly environment. Hope this gives a better sense of what's happening.