5 ms·

Native iOS development made simple [video]

45 points by jeromecollomb 14y ago

adamjernst 14y ago
Nice idea, but the sample code they show in the screenshot uses "FALSE" instead of NO (the Obj-C standard boolean literal). I'm not sure how they did that (#define?) but stay far, far away. Imagine if you opened up a Ruby codebase and found out I had aliased NO to be the same as the language builtin false... yeesh. Also, setting boolean instance variables to NO in init is silly since Obj-C objects are calloc'd, so all ivars are guaranteed to start with default values (nil/0/NO).
- dazzla 14y ago
  I've always used YES NO TRUE FALSE interchangeably without any #defines.
- mikeash 14y ago
  CFBase.h defines TRUE as 1 and FALSE as 0. There's no reason to think that they defined it themselves (and indeed, I believe this would error unless they explicitly checked for a previous definition).
  - adamjernst 14y ago
    Correct.
- ajanuary 14y ago
  TRUE and FALSE are defined in obj-c (http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/objc4/objc4-371.1/runtime/standard.h http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/objc4/objc4-371.1/run...), mainly for compatibility with C code. It's recommended YES and NO are used (http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/objc4/objc4-371.1/runtime/objc.h http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/objc4/objc4-371.1/run...)
- objclxt 14y ago
  > I'm not sure how they did that (#define?) but stay far, far away ...NO and YES in Objective-C are themselves #defines. As others have pointed out, TRUE/FALSE are also already defined in the language, although using them in Objective-C is not good style. http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/objc4/objc4-371.1/runtime/objc.h http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/objc4/objc4-371.1/run...
nayefc 14y ago
From all the app code generators I've seen and used, the experience is absolutely horrendous. Memory leaks, does not five you full access into the API etc... It's a lot easier to suck it up and learn Objective-C than having to deal with these tools.
- dicroce 14y ago
  What would be cool is if someone who was a REALLY good objective C developer made a tool... So that the generated code was of the highest quality.
  - bennyg 14y ago
    Part of me wants to and most of me doesn't haha. The problem is that design patterns change pretty frequently. I mean I cringed when I saw action sheets and their table views in the video. I'm working on a "Bootstrap for iOS" right now but the project is pretty much on the back burner due to some other iOS stuff I'm working on. I've released the colors part of what I was going to include (shameless plug: https://github.com/bennyguitar/Colours-for-iOS https://github.com/bennyguitar/Colours-for-iOS) and I'm going to release another couple classes soon that make some UI stuff a lot easier and streamlined.
    - tudorizer 14y ago
      Looks like a good start. I'll be watching this repo.
- atwebb 14y ago
  Out of curiosity have you used or seen Xamarin? I've heard a lot of hype and talked to fairly experienced people who say it doesn't add too much in size or performance cost.
  - city41 14y ago
    I like Xamarin's products. I am currently involved in a Xamarin.Mac project and I definitely prefer coding with C# over Obj-C. It's a very nice combo of having things like LINQ, nullables, properties, etc and yet you're still truly coding against/with Cocoa. You can't use Xamarin's products without first having at least a working knowledge of Apple's tech. My reservation is the cost. I bought MonoTouch when it was first released and wrote a game for the iPad with it[1]. If I wanted to release that game now though, I'd have to re-buy MonoTouch, which doesn't sit well with me. But if you're not a hobbyest then the cost is pretty irrelevant IMO. [1]https://github.com/city41/optix https://github.com/city41/optix
brador 14y ago
Price is $299 PER APPLICATION? or is that a typo?
- mikeash 14y ago
  If it does what it promises, then $299 per app is a trivial amount. If it doesn't, then it's not really worth any money at all. Either way, the $299 figure isn't very important.
gavingmiller 14y ago
Has anyone located some code generated by this system? Would love to take a look through it.
holgersindbaek 14y ago
Nice idea, but it seems like the only kind of apps you can build are apps that takes stuff from the web and put it inside the app. Well done that they have been able to build it though. How do you think they are porting the html/css code to Obj-C?
- bennyg 14y ago
  It looks like from the video it just writes it all and you drop an info.plist file and a build folder (probably with classes and all images) into your project. It doesn't show it, but my guess is that you then change the initial VC in the AppDelegate file and you're on your way.
jlebrech 14y ago
RubyMotion?
aarondf 14y ago
I think this is a cool idea, but I think it might make sense to aim it at the Titanium platform. As a Titanium developer myself, I think this would go over extremely well in our community. I would assume that anyone who is comfortable enough in Obj-C wouldn't really want to use an app builder like this, but titanium devs are already using a "builder" of sorts since they are using the framework. Just a thought!
BaconJuice 14y ago
Just curious, how did you guys derive to this number? "Reduce iOS development cost and time by 80%"
- pjmlp 14y ago
  Marketing speech I assume.
camus 14y ago
300$ (a theme) for IOS themes ?
sdfjkl 14y ago
If you want to write iOS things, don't fool yourself into thinking there is a way around learning Objective-C and Cocoa (Touch).
joezhou 14y ago
Well, so easy a caveman can do it! Except the product will also looks like it's designed by a caveman.. :D But pretty cool for the everyday idea man out there
argonaut 14y ago
How is this any different than building the GUI using built-in Storyboards/Interface Builder? If your app does anything more than just displaying content, it still seems like you'll have to jump into the code.

45 points by jeromecollomb 14y ago

Nice idea, but the sample code they show in the screenshot uses "FALSE" instead of NO (the Obj-C standard boolean literal). I'm not sure how they did that (#define?) but stay far, far away. Imagine if you opened up a Ruby codebase and found out I had aliased NO to be the same as the language builtin false... yeesh. Also, setting boolean instance variables to NO in init is silly since Obj-C objects are calloc'd, so all ivars are guaranteed to start with default values (nil/0/NO).

dazzla 14y ago
I've always used YES NO TRUE FALSE interchangeably without any #defines.
mikeash 14y ago
CFBase.h defines TRUE as 1 and FALSE as 0. There's no reason to think that they defined it themselves (and indeed, I believe this would error unless they explicitly checked for a previous definition).
- adamjernst 14y ago
  Correct.
ajanuary 14y ago
TRUE and FALSE are defined in obj-c (http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/objc4/objc4-371.1/runtime/standard.h http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/objc4/objc4-371.1/run...), mainly for compatibility with C code. It's recommended YES and NO are used (http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/objc4/objc4-371.1/runtime/objc.h http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/objc4/objc4-371.1/run...)
objclxt 14y ago
> I'm not sure how they did that (#define?) but stay far, far away ...NO and YES in Objective-C are themselves #defines. As others have pointed out, TRUE/FALSE are also already defined in the language, although using them in Objective-C is not good style. http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/objc4/objc4-371.1/runtime/objc.h http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/objc4/objc4-371.1/run...

nayefc 14y ago

From all the app code generators I've seen and used, the experience is absolutely horrendous. Memory leaks, does not five you full access into the API etc... It's a lot easier to suck it up and learn Objective-C than having to deal with these tools.

dicroce 14y ago
What would be cool is if someone who was a REALLY good objective C developer made a tool... So that the generated code was of the highest quality.
- bennyg 14y ago
  Part of me wants to and most of me doesn't haha. The problem is that design patterns change pretty frequently. I mean I cringed when I saw action sheets and their table views in the video. I'm working on a "Bootstrap for iOS" right now but the project is pretty much on the back burner due to some other iOS stuff I'm working on. I've released the colors part of what I was going to include (shameless plug: https://github.com/bennyguitar/Colours-for-iOS https://github.com/bennyguitar/Colours-for-iOS) and I'm going to release another couple classes soon that make some UI stuff a lot easier and streamlined.
  - tudorizer 14y ago
    Looks like a good start. I'll be watching this repo.
atwebb 14y ago
Out of curiosity have you used or seen Xamarin? I've heard a lot of hype and talked to fairly experienced people who say it doesn't add too much in size or performance cost.
- city41 14y ago
  I like Xamarin's products. I am currently involved in a Xamarin.Mac project and I definitely prefer coding with C# over Obj-C. It's a very nice combo of having things like LINQ, nullables, properties, etc and yet you're still truly coding against/with Cocoa. You can't use Xamarin's products without first having at least a working knowledge of Apple's tech. My reservation is the cost. I bought MonoTouch when it was first released and wrote a game for the iPad with it[1]. If I wanted to release that game now though, I'd have to re-buy MonoTouch, which doesn't sit well with me. But if you're not a hobbyest then the cost is pretty irrelevant IMO. [1]https://github.com/city41/optix https://github.com/city41/optix

brador 14y ago

Price is $299 PER APPLICATION? or is that a typo?

mikeash 14y ago
If it does what it promises, then $299 per app is a trivial amount. If it doesn't, then it's not really worth any money at all. Either way, the $299 figure isn't very important.

gavingmiller 14y ago

Has anyone located some code generated by this system? Would love to take a look through it.

holgersindbaek 14y ago

Nice idea, but it seems like the only kind of apps you can build are apps that takes stuff from the web and put it inside the app. Well done that they have been able to build it though. How do you think they are porting the html/css code to Obj-C?

bennyg 14y ago
It looks like from the video it just writes it all and you drop an info.plist file and a build folder (probably with classes and all images) into your project. It doesn't show it, but my guess is that you then change the initial VC in the AppDelegate file and you're on your way.

jlebrech 14y ago

RubyMotion?

aarondf 14y ago

I think this is a cool idea, but I think it might make sense to aim it at the Titanium platform. As a Titanium developer myself, I think this would go over extremely well in our community. I would assume that anyone who is comfortable enough in Obj-C wouldn't really want to use an app builder like this, but titanium devs are already using a "builder" of sorts since they are using the framework. Just a thought!

BaconJuice 14y ago

Just curious, how did you guys derive to this number? "Reduce iOS development cost and time by 80%"

pjmlp 14y ago
Marketing speech I assume.

camus 14y ago

300$ (a theme) for IOS themes ?

sdfjkl 14y ago

If you want to write iOS things, don't fool yourself into thinking there is a way around learning Objective-C and Cocoa (Touch).

joezhou 14y ago

Well, so easy a caveman can do it! Except the product will also looks like it's designed by a caveman.. :D But pretty cool for the everyday idea man out there

argonaut 14y ago

How is this any different than building the GUI using built-in Storyboards/Interface Builder? If your app does anything more than just displaying content, it still seems like you'll have to jump into the code.