4 ms·

Startups have a sexism problem

12 points by thejteam 14y ago

lignuist 14y ago
Feminists start up a problem.
acangiano 14y ago
It's as if they intentionally tried to write the worst possible article on the issue.
setrofim_ 14y ago
Sad to see CNN give further validity to this non-story. Especially since it has already been established that there was no actual sexism involved.
largesse 14y ago
It's funny to see how this story migrated from being about the tech industry to being about startups. Are the two synonymous now to people outside the industry?
- neya 14y ago
  It's about pageviews my friend. You know, writing anything controversial and attaching it to a broad evergreen topic like 'Start-ups' will result in more pageviews. Which means more money for the site. Fuck these shitty media sites. Infact, this is a very poor reporting on the incident and has so many un-related knots.
leeoniya 14y ago
the sad thing is, the whole PyCon situation is not even a representative example of sexism. if you're a woman planning to walk into a men's restroom, don't complain about what you hear and see - their comments were not targeted towards her, nor towards women. the whole thing makes about as much sense as some guy going to a largely-female yoga class and outraged about two women making jokes about breast sizes.
- setrofim_ 14y ago
  > if you're a woman planning to walk into a men's restroom, don't complain about what you hear and see Are you trying to imply that PyCon is a "boys club" and that women have no right to expect to feel comfortable being there?
  - leeoniya 14y ago
    nothing of the sort is implied, but the fact that it's currently 95% boys is a reality that will not change overnight. if you're someone who's easily offended by immature jokes of any sort, then you should expect to feel uncomfortable around any group of people who tend to make immature jokes. ...and programmers/techies make a lot of immature jokes :P
yarrel 14y ago
"What's hard is she isn't the first person to get fired for speaking out, and she won't be the last." No, she wasn't the first person to get fired.
moron4hire 14y ago
Why are self-espoused feminists so sex-negative?
- illuminate 14y ago
  To give a sincere response, "sex-negative" doesn't mean embracing sexual behavior and discussion in every possible context.
  - mackem 14y ago
    Nor does it imply the exclusion of sexual behaviour/discussion in every possible context. (assuming here you meant to say "sex-positive") This conference was a big event with lots of people and lots of talking. I think it would be odd if in all those countless discussions someone didn't mention something sexual just by accident. Whilst I don't think sexual innuendo's are particularly witty, I would hardly count 2 of them in a conference with hundreds of people as a grotesque and unnecessary insertion of sexuality into a non-sexual context. This incident does reek of sex-negativity. If this was any other form of joke someone didn't find funny, it would be a non-issue. But peoples uncomfortability with anything remotely sexual means it gets perceived as sexist. I mean, sex kind sounds like sexist right?
    - illuminate 14y ago
      "assuming here you meant to say 'sex-positive'" Yep. "This incident does reek of sex-negativity." Again, it's all about context. Feeling negative about sexual discussion at work and at conferences does not mean that you can not promote positive attitudes in your private life and among your friends. I don't find the specific example that all this originated the best representative of the attitude, but you do not have to be okay with every childish/naive dirty joke in every environment to have a healthy attitude towards sex.
      - moron4hire 14y ago
        I'm sorry, but I fundamentally disagree with your core premise.
dictum 14y ago
CNN has a pageviews problem. Don't worry, they're working on it.
nugget 14y ago
Startups are one of the LEAST discriminatory environments I have ever worked in. In corporate america, you can usually find some subtle undercurrents of discrimination wherever you work. But in a startup company, everyone has so much vested in the success of the venture. If you can code, or sell clients, or recruit partners effectively, or fill some other critical function, then most entrepreneurs will move heaven and earth to hire you, their teams will welcome you with open arms, and you will be heartily thanked and celebrated when you deliver. When everyone's money and future is on the line the bullshit evaporates pretty quickly, as it should.
mackem 14y ago
Why is no one in these stories even questioning the concept of whether any joke about sex or sexual innuendo is inherently sexist? Whilst not my personal comedic cup of tea, sexual innuendo is just a pun. Puns might be uninspired non-comedy, but a sexual pun is no more inherently sexist than a non-sexual pun. Is the idea that because it was a woman who felt uncomfortable about a sexual innuendo, it was an inherently sexist act? People feel uncomfortable and offended with jokes all the time, that doesn't define their sexism or lack thereof. This whole thing smacks of artificial controversy. It's a shame two people had to lose their jobs over what appears to be a total non-issue. If this is the most blatant example of sexism in the tech industry / "start ups", one might think there are other more important things to focus on and get people fired for.
dragonbonheur 14y ago
Of course I'm nobody but if I had to say something to women it would be this: real geeks don't care if you're women, just code or hack hardware. Go create. Nobody in his right mind would question the worth of geniuses like Jeri Ellsworth, Jessica Mah of InDinero or Tan Le of Emotiv. These three just went and created stuff. Women don't need approval or permission to be great and real geeks don't care that they're women. However, and I mean that for men as for women, gay or straight, of any color or race, don't take offense when people are talking among themselves about things which do not concern you in any way. Chances are you heard wrong. Don't eavesdrop on people's conversations with the ambition to become "modern Joan of Arcs". Otherwise, welcome to our family.

12 points by thejteam 14y ago

lignuist 14y ago

Feminists start up a problem.

acangiano 14y ago

It's as if they intentionally tried to write the worst possible article on the issue.

setrofim_ 14y ago

Sad to see CNN give further validity to this non-story. Especially since it has already been established that there was no actual sexism involved.

largesse 14y ago

It's funny to see how this story migrated from being about the tech industry to being about startups. Are the two synonymous now to people outside the industry?

neya 14y ago
It's about pageviews my friend. You know, writing anything controversial and attaching it to a broad evergreen topic like 'Start-ups' will result in more pageviews. Which means more money for the site. Fuck these shitty media sites. Infact, this is a very poor reporting on the incident and has so many un-related knots.

leeoniya 14y ago

the sad thing is, the whole PyCon situation is not even a representative example of sexism. if you're a woman planning to walk into a men's restroom, don't complain about what you hear and see - their comments were not targeted towards her, nor towards women. the whole thing makes about as much sense as some guy going to a largely-female yoga class and outraged about two women making jokes about breast sizes.

setrofim_ 14y ago
> if you're a woman planning to walk into a men's restroom, don't complain about what you hear and see Are you trying to imply that PyCon is a "boys club" and that women have no right to expect to feel comfortable being there?
- leeoniya 14y ago
  nothing of the sort is implied, but the fact that it's currently 95% boys is a reality that will not change overnight. if you're someone who's easily offended by immature jokes of any sort, then you should expect to feel uncomfortable around any group of people who tend to make immature jokes. ...and programmers/techies make a lot of immature jokes :P

yarrel 14y ago

"What's hard is she isn't the first person to get fired for speaking out, and she won't be the last." No, she wasn't the first person to get fired.

moron4hire 14y ago

Why are self-espoused feminists so sex-negative?

illuminate 14y ago
To give a sincere response, "sex-negative" doesn't mean embracing sexual behavior and discussion in every possible context.
- mackem 14y ago
  Nor does it imply the exclusion of sexual behaviour/discussion in every possible context. (assuming here you meant to say "sex-positive") This conference was a big event with lots of people and lots of talking. I think it would be odd if in all those countless discussions someone didn't mention something sexual just by accident. Whilst I don't think sexual innuendo's are particularly witty, I would hardly count 2 of them in a conference with hundreds of people as a grotesque and unnecessary insertion of sexuality into a non-sexual context. This incident does reek of sex-negativity. If this was any other form of joke someone didn't find funny, it would be a non-issue. But peoples uncomfortability with anything remotely sexual means it gets perceived as sexist. I mean, sex kind sounds like sexist right?
  - illuminate 14y ago
    "assuming here you meant to say 'sex-positive'" Yep. "This incident does reek of sex-negativity." Again, it's all about context. Feeling negative about sexual discussion at work and at conferences does not mean that you can not promote positive attitudes in your private life and among your friends. I don't find the specific example that all this originated the best representative of the attitude, but you do not have to be okay with every childish/naive dirty joke in every environment to have a healthy attitude towards sex.
    - moron4hire 14y ago
      I'm sorry, but I fundamentally disagree with your core premise.

dictum 14y ago

CNN has a pageviews problem. Don't worry, they're working on it.

nugget 14y ago

Startups are one of the LEAST discriminatory environments I have ever worked in. In corporate america, you can usually find some subtle undercurrents of discrimination wherever you work. But in a startup company, everyone has so much vested in the success of the venture. If you can code, or sell clients, or recruit partners effectively, or fill some other critical function, then most entrepreneurs will move heaven and earth to hire you, their teams will welcome you with open arms, and you will be heartily thanked and celebrated when you deliver. When everyone's money and future is on the line the bullshit evaporates pretty quickly, as it should.

mackem 14y ago

Why is no one in these stories even questioning the concept of whether any joke about sex or sexual innuendo is inherently sexist? Whilst not my personal comedic cup of tea, sexual innuendo is just a pun. Puns might be uninspired non-comedy, but a sexual pun is no more inherently sexist than a non-sexual pun. Is the idea that because it was a woman who felt uncomfortable about a sexual innuendo, it was an inherently sexist act? People feel uncomfortable and offended with jokes all the time, that doesn't define their sexism or lack thereof. This whole thing smacks of artificial controversy. It's a shame two people had to lose their jobs over what appears to be a total non-issue. If this is the most blatant example of sexism in the tech industry / "start ups", one might think there are other more important things to focus on and get people fired for.

dragonbonheur 14y ago

Of course I'm nobody but if I had to say something to women it would be this: real geeks don't care if you're women, just code or hack hardware. Go create. Nobody in his right mind would question the worth of geniuses like Jeri Ellsworth, Jessica Mah of InDinero or Tan Le of Emotiv. These three just went and created stuff. Women don't need approval or permission to be great and real geeks don't care that they're women. However, and I mean that for men as for women, gay or straight, of any color or race, don't take offense when people are talking among themselves about things which do not concern you in any way. Chances are you heard wrong. Don't eavesdrop on people's conversations with the ambition to become "modern Joan of Arcs". Otherwise, welcome to our family.