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>>it's how not to handle a PR crisis. What? They've handled it as well as they could have considering the position they were placed in. I don't care for eithe

>>it's how not to handle a PR crisis. What? They've handled it as well as they could have considering the position they were placed in. I don't care for either side "winning" this debate. This is about mature behaviour, not PR spin. Their problem can, and frankly should, be viewed from the technical perspective. Had I participated in the system development, I would advocate for e-mail notifications that need to be sent to the original company's support e-mail address. There's no reason NOT to do it. As I've said above, GS is to blame here, as well. However, there was something that 37Signals could do that would show that they're the fantastic company they market themselves to be. Sadly, their charismatic leader chose the route of public airing of his grievances. It wasn't needed at that point in time, since 1) they knew about the problem for a while and 2) they haven't talked to GS's founders privately first. As for scoring of comments, I really couldn't care less. I believe in my standpoint and if I don't express my standpoint clearly, let me know. If you're going to downvote me, because I'm being critical of 37Signals, then they're speaking to the right audience.

tptacek 18y ago
I'm not downvoting you. Comments scores aren't scientific, but they are one way to gauge the prevailing opinion at Hacker News, and from what I can see, the prevailing opinion at Hacker News --- which is a sweet-spot collection of GS prospects --- trends profoundly towards 37s on this one. So I think that's interesting and worth pointing out. But you? I have no idea who you even are.
- batasrki 18y ago
  Ah, but it's also a sweet-spot of 37Signals' fans. I guess we know which way readers here will lean, now, don't we? I hoped that HN readers would be more objective than this, but then again it's only a news site. Oh, well. P.S. dude, you should totally meet me. I'm very cool in person. ;-)
  - Goronmon 18y ago
    I hoped that HN readers would be more objective than this, but then again it's only a news site. Oh, well. Just remember that this type of judgmental attitude goes both ways. As likely as everyone who disagrees with you is a 37Signals fanboy, you could be a hater just looking to troll any thread to create a negative perception of the company.
    - batasrki 18y ago
      You'd be quite right, but you'd have to ascertain that by looking through my comment history. I don't troll, but I will fight for what believe vehemently, even if that gets me downmodded. I'll then sit and think about what I've said and what others have said. If I'm very wrong, I'll correct it. Fighting for objectivity on a site is something that I don't think should be looked at negatively. But, to each his own.
      - Goronmon 18y ago
        Fighting for objectivity on a site is something that I don't think should be looked at negatively. But, to each his own. I don't see how accusing those disagreeing with you as being fanboys is "fighting for objectivity". Maybe a lot of people just don't think the stance you are taking has merit?
        batasrki 18y ago
        If you'll notice, I have devolved to that only after I was called a GS fanboy for no other reason than arguing a counterpoint. My stance has no merit, only if you're unwilling to consider how this debacle might have impacted the other side. Yes, they made a mistake. A severe one. Did they do it on purpose? Everyone here seems to think so and I don't think that the peanut gallery would see it that way had there been a fair and objective view of the situation with comments provided from both sides. The thing I was most upset with is that most HN readers did not stop to consider whether or not GS founders are really as malicious as they were being painted.
  - gruseom 18y ago
    Ah, but it's also a sweet-spot of 37Signals' fans. That's not true. There are many critics of 37S here, some of them rather harsh. I'm no 37S fan, but this controversy is a no-brainer for me. Customer support is a critical, inalienable part of my business. If someone tried to get between me and my customers, I would be furious. If they did it using a website that fooled people into thinking it was me, I would be exponentially furiouser. Before this, I had a vague idea of GS as an up-and-coming startup. Now my perception of them has become: I don't want them anywhere the hell near my customers. Who do they think they are to insinuate themselves into that relationship? They might as well be trying to replace parts of my code with their own. Edit: replaced "Now I know one thing about them" with "Now my perception of them has become". I don't of course know what GS' strategy or intentions really are. But from a positioning point of view, that doesn't matter.
    - Semiapies 18y ago
      This is part of the benefit of taking matters public; sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Semiapies 18y ago
You're arguing from premises that don't seem valid to me (and likely others): http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=542530 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=542530 The whole "GS is to blame here, as well" (emphasis added) approach probably strikes people as either GS-fanboyish or 37S-haterish. The wrong was done by GS - full stop. The repeated assertions by a few people that Fried was wrong to publicly complain about the wrongdoing aren't convincing people.
- batasrki 18y ago
  Why not? That's my whole point. Whenever someone complains against Google, Microsoft, take your pick, they've done pretty much everything they could have to first privately resolve the issue. Saying that 37Signals have the right to completely skip to public flogging of another company IS fanboyish. That's all I am saying. If this is supposed to be a forum of objective readers, why are they completely discarding that part? I am not a fanboy of GS. Until this, I've only heard of them maybe three times. This is about objectivity and bullying. Jason Fried has a big enough of a forum to bully another company and he's done it. Why is that that can't stand on its own, divorced from the argument for/against GS?
  - Semiapies 18y ago
    "Why not?" Because publicly criticizing wrongful, damaging behavior is not "bullying" in the eyes of most people. That, in fact, is exactly why it's embarrassing for the people complained about in cases like this. "Saying that 37Signals have the right to completely skip to public flogging of another company IS fanboyish." Well, I'll cop to being a total free speech fanboy.
    - deleted 18y ago
      [deleted]

tptacek 18y ago

I'm not downvoting you. Comments scores aren't scientific, but they are one way to gauge the prevailing opinion at Hacker News, and from what I can see, the prevailing opinion at Hacker News --- which is a sweet-spot collection of GS prospects --- trends profoundly towards 37s on this one. So I think that's interesting and worth pointing out. But you? I have no idea who you even are.

batasrki 18y ago
Ah, but it's also a sweet-spot of 37Signals' fans. I guess we know which way readers here will lean, now, don't we? I hoped that HN readers would be more objective than this, but then again it's only a news site. Oh, well. P.S. dude, you should totally meet me. I'm very cool in person. ;-)
- Goronmon 18y ago
  I hoped that HN readers would be more objective than this, but then again it's only a news site. Oh, well. Just remember that this type of judgmental attitude goes both ways. As likely as everyone who disagrees with you is a 37Signals fanboy, you could be a hater just looking to troll any thread to create a negative perception of the company.
  - batasrki 18y ago
    You'd be quite right, but you'd have to ascertain that by looking through my comment history. I don't troll, but I will fight for what believe vehemently, even if that gets me downmodded. I'll then sit and think about what I've said and what others have said. If I'm very wrong, I'll correct it. Fighting for objectivity on a site is something that I don't think should be looked at negatively. But, to each his own.
    - Goronmon 18y ago
      Fighting for objectivity on a site is something that I don't think should be looked at negatively. But, to each his own. I don't see how accusing those disagreeing with you as being fanboys is "fighting for objectivity". Maybe a lot of people just don't think the stance you are taking has merit?
      - batasrki 18y ago
        If you'll notice, I have devolved to that only after I was called a GS fanboy for no other reason than arguing a counterpoint. My stance has no merit, only if you're unwilling to consider how this debacle might have impacted the other side. Yes, they made a mistake. A severe one. Did they do it on purpose? Everyone here seems to think so and I don't think that the peanut gallery would see it that way had there been a fair and objective view of the situation with comments provided from both sides. The thing I was most upset with is that most HN readers did not stop to consider whether or not GS founders are really as malicious as they were being painted.
- gruseom 18y ago
  Ah, but it's also a sweet-spot of 37Signals' fans. That's not true. There are many critics of 37S here, some of them rather harsh. I'm no 37S fan, but this controversy is a no-brainer for me. Customer support is a critical, inalienable part of my business. If someone tried to get between me and my customers, I would be furious. If they did it using a website that fooled people into thinking it was me, I would be exponentially furiouser. Before this, I had a vague idea of GS as an up-and-coming startup. Now my perception of them has become: I don't want them anywhere the hell near my customers. Who do they think they are to insinuate themselves into that relationship? They might as well be trying to replace parts of my code with their own. Edit: replaced "Now I know one thing about them" with "Now my perception of them has become". I don't of course know what GS' strategy or intentions really are. But from a positioning point of view, that doesn't matter.
  - Semiapies 18y ago
    This is part of the benefit of taking matters public; sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Semiapies 18y ago

You're arguing from premises that don't seem valid to me (and likely others): http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=542530 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=542530 The whole "GS is to blame here, as well" (emphasis added) approach probably strikes people as either GS-fanboyish or 37S-haterish. The wrong was done by GS - full stop. The repeated assertions by a few people that Fried was wrong to publicly complain about the wrongdoing aren't convincing people.

batasrki 18y ago
Why not? That's my whole point. Whenever someone complains against Google, Microsoft, take your pick, they've done pretty much everything they could have to first privately resolve the issue. Saying that 37Signals have the right to completely skip to public flogging of another company IS fanboyish. That's all I am saying. If this is supposed to be a forum of objective readers, why are they completely discarding that part? I am not a fanboy of GS. Until this, I've only heard of them maybe three times. This is about objectivity and bullying. Jason Fried has a big enough of a forum to bully another company and he's done it. Why is that that can't stand on its own, divorced from the argument for/against GS?
- Semiapies 18y ago
  "Why not?" Because publicly criticizing wrongful, damaging behavior is not "bullying" in the eyes of most people. That, in fact, is exactly why it's embarrassing for the people complained about in cases like this. "Saying that 37Signals have the right to completely skip to public flogging of another company IS fanboyish." Well, I'll cop to being a total free speech fanboy.
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]