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I don't understand why this is top of HN. Sure, GetSatisfaction screwed up their text on one of their badges, but that shouldn't have been cause for Jason to go

I don't understand why this is top of HN. Sure, GetSatisfaction screwed up their text on one of their badges, but that shouldn't have been cause for Jason to go off on a rant. Also, I think that GetSatisfaction could have notified 37Signals when the page got created as per this quote from Sarah: "customer himself pointed me to the GS page he had created to ask 37signals a question". However, these are all issues that could have been handled differently, most notably NOT being aired out to the general public. If Jason Fried thought that GS has "blackmailed" him, isn't he stooping to their level then by publicly denouncing their service, thereby essentially blackmailing them into action? Seriously, let's all be adults.

mechanical_fish 18y ago
I don't understand why this is top of HN. Because apparently a lot of people need an elementary lesson in trademark law and the reason it exists. Of course, you don't have to learn about trademark law before you build your startup. You could always learn about it after you've constructed and deployed an automated system for violating it.
- batasrki 18y ago
  Of course, had there been a bug in your "automated system" and you did not intend on violating the law in the first place, you'd still want to be publicly embarrassed just because the person who's angry with you did not have the manners to do it privately?
  - tptacek 18y ago
    Every time you try to make GS out to be the victim here, you provide another hook for us to keep debating this. Look at the comment scores and the balance of comments. GS isn't winning this debate. In fact, not only are they not winning it, but 37signals has now also managed to impress a lot of us with Sarah Hatter's customer service skills, which builds a case for doing this work in-house. There's something to learn from this, and it's not trademark law --- it's how not to handle a PR crisis.
    - Semiapies 18y ago
      Oh, there are many lessons to be learned, here. :) Hopefully GS is learning them, too.
    - batasrki 18y ago
      >>it's how not to handle a PR crisis. What? They've handled it as well as they could have considering the position they were placed in. I don't care for either side "winning" this debate. This is about mature behaviour, not PR spin. Their problem can, and frankly should, be viewed from the technical perspective. Had I participated in the system development, I would advocate for e-mail notifications that need to be sent to the original company's support e-mail address. There's no reason NOT to do it. As I've said above, GS is to blame here, as well. However, there was something that 37Signals could do that would show that they're the fantastic company they market themselves to be. Sadly, their charismatic leader chose the route of public airing of his grievances. It wasn't needed at that point in time, since 1) they knew about the problem for a while and 2) they haven't talked to GS's founders privately first. As for scoring of comments, I really couldn't care less. I believe in my standpoint and if I don't express my standpoint clearly, let me know. If you're going to downvote me, because I'm being critical of 37Signals, then they're speaking to the right audience.
      - tptacek 18y ago
        I'm not downvoting you. Comments scores aren't scientific, but they are one way to gauge the prevailing opinion at Hacker News, and from what I can see, the prevailing opinion at Hacker News --- which is a sweet-spot collection of GS prospects --- trends profoundly towards 37s on this one. So I think that's interesting and worth pointing out. But you? I have no idea who you even are.
        batasrki 18y ago
        Ah, but it's also a sweet-spot of 37Signals' fans. I guess we know which way readers here will lean, now, don't we? I hoped that HN readers would be more objective than this, but then again it's only a news site. Oh, well. P.S. dude, you should totally meet me. I'm very cool in person. ;-)
- Semiapies 18y ago
  Sadly, quite a few people are having trouble grasping that critical blog posts are the absolute least of your worries when you break laws and infringe on others' identities. Or that being nice, smart people running a startup with some fanboys is not actually a get-out-of-jail card for your misbehavior.
  - mechanical_fish 18y ago
    being nice, smart people running a startup with some fanboys is not actually a get-out-of-jail card Well, let's be charitable. I'm sure a lot of people are in shock. People in shock say silly and even random things. Have you ever rooted for a soccer team, or a hockey team, and then watched them lose a very important game by scoring an own goal in overtime? I have. You tend to go into shock. You can't necessarily say anything rational, or even printable, at a moment like that. It's never fun to watch another startup make a big mistake. [1] It's too easy to imagine yourself making a similar mistake. We all work with powerful tools that are capable of turning a small lapse of knowledge, attention, or judgement into a problem that potentially affects millions of people. The tools can be great -- they let two people, living on Ramen in a tiny apartment, make big changes in the world -- but they can also really amplify your mistakes. --- [1] Okay, okay... it's rarely fun.
    - Semiapies 18y ago
      "Well, let's be charitable. I'm sure a lot of people are in shock." Hell, I was shocked. I didn't know GS operated that way. I had only vaguely heard of them and thought they were a community site, not a company that engages in the sorts of practices that they've openly admitted. But shock is only a plausible justification for so long. The group of people who think the real problem here is that this story became public and people got unhappy at GS have had plenty of time to think it over.

mechanical_fish 18y ago

I don't understand why this is top of HN. Because apparently a lot of people need an elementary lesson in trademark law and the reason it exists. Of course, you don't have to learn about trademark law before you build your startup. You could always learn about it after you've constructed and deployed an automated system for violating it.

batasrki 18y ago
Of course, had there been a bug in your "automated system" and you did not intend on violating the law in the first place, you'd still want to be publicly embarrassed just because the person who's angry with you did not have the manners to do it privately?
- tptacek 18y ago
  Every time you try to make GS out to be the victim here, you provide another hook for us to keep debating this. Look at the comment scores and the balance of comments. GS isn't winning this debate. In fact, not only are they not winning it, but 37signals has now also managed to impress a lot of us with Sarah Hatter's customer service skills, which builds a case for doing this work in-house. There's something to learn from this, and it's not trademark law --- it's how not to handle a PR crisis.
  - Semiapies 18y ago
    Oh, there are many lessons to be learned, here. :) Hopefully GS is learning them, too.
  - batasrki 18y ago
    >>it's how not to handle a PR crisis. What? They've handled it as well as they could have considering the position they were placed in. I don't care for either side "winning" this debate. This is about mature behaviour, not PR spin. Their problem can, and frankly should, be viewed from the technical perspective. Had I participated in the system development, I would advocate for e-mail notifications that need to be sent to the original company's support e-mail address. There's no reason NOT to do it. As I've said above, GS is to blame here, as well. However, there was something that 37Signals could do that would show that they're the fantastic company they market themselves to be. Sadly, their charismatic leader chose the route of public airing of his grievances. It wasn't needed at that point in time, since 1) they knew about the problem for a while and 2) they haven't talked to GS's founders privately first. As for scoring of comments, I really couldn't care less. I believe in my standpoint and if I don't express my standpoint clearly, let me know. If you're going to downvote me, because I'm being critical of 37Signals, then they're speaking to the right audience.
    - tptacek 18y ago
      I'm not downvoting you. Comments scores aren't scientific, but they are one way to gauge the prevailing opinion at Hacker News, and from what I can see, the prevailing opinion at Hacker News --- which is a sweet-spot collection of GS prospects --- trends profoundly towards 37s on this one. So I think that's interesting and worth pointing out. But you? I have no idea who you even are.
      - batasrki 18y ago
        Ah, but it's also a sweet-spot of 37Signals' fans. I guess we know which way readers here will lean, now, don't we? I hoped that HN readers would be more objective than this, but then again it's only a news site. Oh, well. P.S. dude, you should totally meet me. I'm very cool in person. ;-)
Semiapies 18y ago
Sadly, quite a few people are having trouble grasping that critical blog posts are the absolute least of your worries when you break laws and infringe on others' identities. Or that being nice, smart people running a startup with some fanboys is not actually a get-out-of-jail card for your misbehavior.
- mechanical_fish 18y ago
  being nice, smart people running a startup with some fanboys is not actually a get-out-of-jail card Well, let's be charitable. I'm sure a lot of people are in shock. People in shock say silly and even random things. Have you ever rooted for a soccer team, or a hockey team, and then watched them lose a very important game by scoring an own goal in overtime? I have. You tend to go into shock. You can't necessarily say anything rational, or even printable, at a moment like that. It's never fun to watch another startup make a big mistake. [1] It's too easy to imagine yourself making a similar mistake. We all work with powerful tools that are capable of turning a small lapse of knowledge, attention, or judgement into a problem that potentially affects millions of people. The tools can be great -- they let two people, living on Ramen in a tiny apartment, make big changes in the world -- but they can also really amplify your mistakes. --- [1] Okay, okay... it's rarely fun.
  - Semiapies 18y ago
    "Well, let's be charitable. I'm sure a lot of people are in shock." Hell, I was shocked. I didn't know GS operated that way. I had only vaguely heard of them and thought they were a community site, not a company that engages in the sorts of practices that they've openly admitted. But shock is only a plausible justification for so long. The group of people who think the real problem here is that this story became public and people got unhappy at GS have had plenty of time to think it over.