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It's more than just a pop culture reference. The fairly short abstract stated "how thinking like a porn director will help you achieve the ‘money shot." And, y

It's more than just a pop culture reference. The fairly short abstract stated "how thinking like a porn director will help you achieve the ‘money shot." And, yes, obviously, Adria has the right to not attend. She ALSO has the right to say that you shouldn't have a talk that celebrates something that many people find utterly vile is not appropriate. I don't think Adria was ever alleging that what they were doing was illegal. We would all hopefully object to someone having a talk called "Taking Naked Kiddie Pics" with a line about "how thinking like a pedophile can capture people's imagination". I would hope that people wouldn't think it was inappropriate to speak up -- even petition -- against such a talk, right? That's my point. [NOTE: I am NOT saying that porn is as bad as kiddie porn. Of course it's not. The analogy I'm drawing is simply that we DO think it's okay to speak up about things that we think are vile or morally wrong. Many people (religious conservatives, etc) see porn that way.]

dictum 14y ago
I didn't know about the abstract, but I can see what they meant for "thinking like a porn director": titillation. It's a strange metaphor, but I think it was about not dragging on for too long and cleaning showing what's amazing about your product. Still, I'm not sure. I don't see how this is celebration: stretching my military example, I've mentioned military discipline in a blog post once. I don't celebrate and personally repudiate most of their actions, but military discipline is a cultural reference that helped explain my point (the blog is long gone so I can't quote it). I understand why feminists would hate the porn industry—exploitation of women at a young age, pressure on people to conform to unrealistic expectations, etc. But the feminist argument against porn as a thing, the porn industry notwithstanding, is based on some assumptions—that sexuality is always a tool of exploitation, that male sexuality is abusive, and that sexual attraction without affective relationships is inherently exploitive. Feminists are right to call out the use of sexuality as a tool for oppression, but to see all sexuality as oppression is absurd.
- AdrianRossouw 14y ago
  Well, ironically they are using 'all sexuality is oppression' as a tool of oppression. From another article on HN right now [1] "Judging a book by its cover is the new tolerance. We throw people into the stocks based on feelings while ignoring intent and assuming victimhood. This is why I fundamentally disagree with equating offense with harassment: it provides unlimited ammo and shuts down discussion rather than giving people the benefit of doubt. It elevates the exception to the norm, by presuming the worst." [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5433390 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5433390
MetaCosm 14y ago
What if we twisted the analogy the other way - what if the talk was "What my two dads taught me?" and the tagline was "Erlang -- two of everything is better". Some people would find that absolutely inappropriate, pushing the homosexual agenda in a conference, violating their religious sensibilities. Do you think those Christians should speak up, start a petition, try to get the talk banned... or maybe just not go to it?
- dictum 14y ago
  When I learned about the dongle incident, my first thought was similar—what if a heterosexual man didn't like a joke about some aspect of homosexuality a gay developer was sharing with his colleague? Actually, now that I think about it, what if the developer who joked about dongles was gay? We know the developer is heterosexual, but Adria couldn't know then. Even if he used gendered language—what if he was closeted and couldn't talk about sex with men publicly? Why did she assume talking about penises meant he was a misogynist?

dictum 14y ago

I didn't know about the abstract, but I can see what they meant for "thinking like a porn director": titillation. It's a strange metaphor, but I think it was about not dragging on for too long and cleaning showing what's amazing about your product. Still, I'm not sure. I don't see how this is celebration: stretching my military example, I've mentioned military discipline in a blog post once. I don't celebrate and personally repudiate most of their actions, but military discipline is a cultural reference that helped explain my point (the blog is long gone so I can't quote it). I understand why feminists would hate the porn industry—exploitation of women at a young age, pressure on people to conform to unrealistic expectations, etc. But the feminist argument against porn as a thing, the porn industry notwithstanding, is based on some assumptions—that sexuality is always a tool of exploitation, that male sexuality is abusive, and that sexual attraction without affective relationships is inherently exploitive. Feminists are right to call out the use of sexuality as a tool for oppression, but to see all sexuality as oppression is absurd.

AdrianRossouw 14y ago
Well, ironically they are using 'all sexuality is oppression' as a tool of oppression. From another article on HN right now [1] "Judging a book by its cover is the new tolerance. We throw people into the stocks based on feelings while ignoring intent and assuming victimhood. This is why I fundamentally disagree with equating offense with harassment: it provides unlimited ammo and shuts down discussion rather than giving people the benefit of doubt. It elevates the exception to the norm, by presuming the worst." [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5433390 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5433390

MetaCosm 14y ago

What if we twisted the analogy the other way - what if the talk was "What my two dads taught me?" and the tagline was "Erlang -- two of everything is better". Some people would find that absolutely inappropriate, pushing the homosexual agenda in a conference, violating their religious sensibilities. Do you think those Christians should speak up, start a petition, try to get the talk banned... or maybe just not go to it?

dictum 14y ago
When I learned about the dongle incident, my first thought was similar—what if a heterosexual man didn't like a joke about some aspect of homosexuality a gay developer was sharing with his colleague? Actually, now that I think about it, what if the developer who joked about dongles was gay? We know the developer is heterosexual, but Adria couldn't know then. Even if he used gendered language—what if he was closeted and couldn't talk about sex with men publicly? Why did she assume talking about penises meant he was a misogynist?