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Porn is a thorny issue—there's really no need for a slide with softcore porn in a tech presentation unless it's a conference for developers of porn websites ;)

by dictum 14y ago

Porn is a thorny issue—there's really no need for a slide with softcore porn in a tech presentation unless it's a conference for developers of porn websites ;) However, the specific example Adria objected to ("Getting the Money Shot") is simply a pop culture reference. If I am a wireless network specialist and I name my presentation on wardriving "The Fog of Wardriving", it does not mean I endorse the military-industrial complex, imperialism, or the actions of the U.S. government. I'm just referencing something vaguely related, or making a dumb pun. It doesn't indicate that Danielle Morrill loves porn and wants everyone in the audience to start an orgy mid-conference, with live streaming. It's just a cultural reference. Also, while Adria has the right to not attend an event which does not follow her personal values, other people don't have any obligation to share her values. Danielle, or any other presenter, male or female, is free to not feel so strongly about porn. What I don't understand at all is Adria's questioning of the WordPress t-shirt. T-shirt: "Hey, as a developer, you don't have to care about content to love WordPress! And if you're a content creator, you don't have to care about software development to love WordPress." How is this misogynist, and how would this stop being misogynist if the comic had men instead of women?

gaylemcd 14y ago
It's more than just a pop culture reference. The fairly short abstract stated "how thinking like a porn director will help you achieve the ‘money shot." And, yes, obviously, Adria has the right to not attend. She ALSO has the right to say that you shouldn't have a talk that celebrates something that many people find utterly vile is not appropriate. I don't think Adria was ever alleging that what they were doing was illegal. We would all hopefully object to someone having a talk called "Taking Naked Kiddie Pics" with a line about "how thinking like a pedophile can capture people's imagination". I would hope that people wouldn't think it was inappropriate to speak up -- even petition -- against such a talk, right? That's my point. [NOTE: I am NOT saying that porn is as bad as kiddie porn. Of course it's not. The analogy I'm drawing is simply that we DO think it's okay to speak up about things that we think are vile or morally wrong. Many people (religious conservatives, etc) see porn that way.]
- dictum 14y ago
  I didn't know about the abstract, but I can see what they meant for "thinking like a porn director": titillation. It's a strange metaphor, but I think it was about not dragging on for too long and cleaning showing what's amazing about your product. Still, I'm not sure. I don't see how this is celebration: stretching my military example, I've mentioned military discipline in a blog post once. I don't celebrate and personally repudiate most of their actions, but military discipline is a cultural reference that helped explain my point (the blog is long gone so I can't quote it). I understand why feminists would hate the porn industry—exploitation of women at a young age, pressure on people to conform to unrealistic expectations, etc. But the feminist argument against porn as a thing, the porn industry notwithstanding, is based on some assumptions—that sexuality is always a tool of exploitation, that male sexuality is abusive, and that sexual attraction without affective relationships is inherently exploitive. Feminists are right to call out the use of sexuality as a tool for oppression, but to see all sexuality as oppression is absurd.
  - AdrianRossouw 14y ago
    Well, ironically they are using 'all sexuality is oppression' as a tool of oppression. From another article on HN right now [1] "Judging a book by its cover is the new tolerance. We throw people into the stocks based on feelings while ignoring intent and assuming victimhood. This is why I fundamentally disagree with equating offense with harassment: it provides unlimited ammo and shuts down discussion rather than giving people the benefit of doubt. It elevates the exception to the norm, by presuming the worst." [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5433390 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5433390
- MetaCosm 14y ago
  What if we twisted the analogy the other way - what if the talk was "What my two dads taught me?" and the tagline was "Erlang -- two of everything is better". Some people would find that absolutely inappropriate, pushing the homosexual agenda in a conference, violating their religious sensibilities. Do you think those Christians should speak up, start a petition, try to get the talk banned... or maybe just not go to it?

by dictum 14y ago

gaylemcd 14y ago

It's more than just a pop culture reference. The fairly short abstract stated "how thinking like a porn director will help you achieve the ‘money shot." And, yes, obviously, Adria has the right to not attend. She ALSO has the right to say that you shouldn't have a talk that celebrates something that many people find utterly vile is not appropriate. I don't think Adria was ever alleging that what they were doing was illegal. We would all hopefully object to someone having a talk called "Taking Naked Kiddie Pics" with a line about "how thinking like a pedophile can capture people's imagination". I would hope that people wouldn't think it was inappropriate to speak up -- even petition -- against such a talk, right? That's my point. [NOTE: I am NOT saying that porn is as bad as kiddie porn. Of course it's not. The analogy I'm drawing is simply that we DO think it's okay to speak up about things that we think are vile or morally wrong. Many people (religious conservatives, etc) see porn that way.]

dictum 14y ago
I didn't know about the abstract, but I can see what they meant for "thinking like a porn director": titillation. It's a strange metaphor, but I think it was about not dragging on for too long and cleaning showing what's amazing about your product. Still, I'm not sure. I don't see how this is celebration: stretching my military example, I've mentioned military discipline in a blog post once. I don't celebrate and personally repudiate most of their actions, but military discipline is a cultural reference that helped explain my point (the blog is long gone so I can't quote it). I understand why feminists would hate the porn industry—exploitation of women at a young age, pressure on people to conform to unrealistic expectations, etc. But the feminist argument against porn as a thing, the porn industry notwithstanding, is based on some assumptions—that sexuality is always a tool of exploitation, that male sexuality is abusive, and that sexual attraction without affective relationships is inherently exploitive. Feminists are right to call out the use of sexuality as a tool for oppression, but to see all sexuality as oppression is absurd.
- AdrianRossouw 14y ago
  Well, ironically they are using 'all sexuality is oppression' as a tool of oppression. From another article on HN right now [1] "Judging a book by its cover is the new tolerance. We throw people into the stocks based on feelings while ignoring intent and assuming victimhood. This is why I fundamentally disagree with equating offense with harassment: it provides unlimited ammo and shuts down discussion rather than giving people the benefit of doubt. It elevates the exception to the norm, by presuming the worst." [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5433390 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5433390
MetaCosm 14y ago
What if we twisted the analogy the other way - what if the talk was "What my two dads taught me?" and the tagline was "Erlang -- two of everything is better". Some people would find that absolutely inappropriate, pushing the homosexual agenda in a conference, violating their religious sensibilities. Do you think those Christians should speak up, start a petition, try to get the talk banned... or maybe just not go to it?