5 ms·

This is one thing that bugs me about complaints about the carbon emissions of cars. Planes cause far more carbon emissions, and they do it way up in the atmosph

by fzzzy 14y ago

This is one thing that bugs me about complaints about the carbon emissions of cars. Planes cause far more carbon emissions, and they do it way up in the atmosphere where it seems plausible that it actually does more damage. It's a giant elephant in the room.

jonknee 14y ago
You can take steps to reduce carbon emissions in cars (smaller car, drive more efficiently, etc), but you can't with planes other than not flying. Luckily, it's in the best interest of airlines to reduce emissions since that means less jet fuel and more profits.
- fzzzy 14y ago
  Indeed, this is true. Thanks for this. The realization that it is also in the best interest of an airline to reduce emissions, especially as the price of oil increases, really helps make me feel better. Not flying doesn't really reduce emissions though... Those planes are going to fly whether or not you are on it.
  - Peaker 14y ago
    Of course it does reduce emissions. Increasing demand for flights means the airlines fly more planes.
  - zevyoura 14y ago
    >Not flying doesn't really reduce emissions though... Those planes are going to fly whether or not you are on it. On an individual level, sure, but not flying reduces demand, which in turn reduces the number of flights.
    - claudius 14y ago
      > On an individual level, sure, but not flying reduces demand, which in turn reduces the number of flights. Try to get flights from London to Paris or from Paris to Lyon. Not flying stops planes from flying very quickly.
  - jonknee 14y ago
    > The realization that it is also in the best interest of an airline to reduce emissions, especially as the price of oil increases, really helps make me feel better. The new Dreamliner jet is a good example of this (once they solve the battery problem and can fly the sucker...). It's massively more efficient than its predecessors (20% more efficient than the 767 according to Boeing). That's a huge jump.
  - corresation 14y ago
    Not flying doesn't really reduce emissions though... Those planes are going to fly whether or not you are on it. This is an extreme example of tragedy of the commons type thinking. Why bother doing anything because someone else will do it anyways?
ersii 14y ago
I would just like to add, that the general person uses a car a lot more often than a plane - and it all adds up. A lot of cars are used by a single person. Almost never (generalised) to it's full potential. I'm uncertain about this, but I think most planes are very well utilised (closer to the full potential rather than to the opposite) - since it's so uneconomical to go empty or close to empty utilisation. I'm not however disputing that a plane emits a lot more emissions than road bound vehicles.
- jeffdavis 14y ago
  "the general person uses a car a lot more often than a plane" Average CO2 per person in the US is around 17 tonnes per year[1]. A single flight from LA to NYC (round trip) is equivalent to about 2 tonnes after taking into account some high-altitude effect[2]. Driving 12,000 miles per year at 25mpg releases about 4 tonnes[3]. So, if you cut your driving in half and then take one long domestic flight, you are just breaking even. If you take multiple long flights per year, you really have no hope of staying below the average carbon footprint for an american. Unless maybe you live in a tree or something. I'm not saying this to be critical. I fly, and I am not ashamed of that. But we should be honest with ourselves, and not think that riding a bus once in a while and buying locally-sourced vegetables makes up for taking three international trips a year. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dio... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviatio... [3] http://www.stewartmarion.com/carbon-footprint/html/carbon-footprint-car.html http://www.stewartmarion.com/carbon-footprint/html/carbon-fo...

by fzzzy 14y ago

jonknee 14y ago

You can take steps to reduce carbon emissions in cars (smaller car, drive more efficiently, etc), but you can't with planes other than not flying. Luckily, it's in the best interest of airlines to reduce emissions since that means less jet fuel and more profits.

fzzzy 14y ago
Indeed, this is true. Thanks for this. The realization that it is also in the best interest of an airline to reduce emissions, especially as the price of oil increases, really helps make me feel better. Not flying doesn't really reduce emissions though... Those planes are going to fly whether or not you are on it.
- Peaker 14y ago
  Of course it does reduce emissions. Increasing demand for flights means the airlines fly more planes.
- zevyoura 14y ago
  >Not flying doesn't really reduce emissions though... Those planes are going to fly whether or not you are on it. On an individual level, sure, but not flying reduces demand, which in turn reduces the number of flights.
  - claudius 14y ago
    > On an individual level, sure, but not flying reduces demand, which in turn reduces the number of flights. Try to get flights from London to Paris or from Paris to Lyon. Not flying stops planes from flying very quickly.
- jonknee 14y ago
  > The realization that it is also in the best interest of an airline to reduce emissions, especially as the price of oil increases, really helps make me feel better. The new Dreamliner jet is a good example of this (once they solve the battery problem and can fly the sucker...). It's massively more efficient than its predecessors (20% more efficient than the 767 according to Boeing). That's a huge jump.
- corresation 14y ago
  Not flying doesn't really reduce emissions though... Those planes are going to fly whether or not you are on it. This is an extreme example of tragedy of the commons type thinking. Why bother doing anything because someone else will do it anyways?

ersii 14y ago

I would just like to add, that the general person uses a car a lot more often than a plane - and it all adds up. A lot of cars are used by a single person. Almost never (generalised) to it's full potential. I'm uncertain about this, but I think most planes are very well utilised (closer to the full potential rather than to the opposite) - since it's so uneconomical to go empty or close to empty utilisation. I'm not however disputing that a plane emits a lot more emissions than road bound vehicles.

jeffdavis 14y ago
"the general person uses a car a lot more often than a plane" Average CO2 per person in the US is around 17 tonnes per year[1]. A single flight from LA to NYC (round trip) is equivalent to about 2 tonnes after taking into account some high-altitude effect[2]. Driving 12,000 miles per year at 25mpg releases about 4 tonnes[3]. So, if you cut your driving in half and then take one long domestic flight, you are just breaking even. If you take multiple long flights per year, you really have no hope of staying below the average carbon footprint for an american. Unless maybe you live in a tree or something. I'm not saying this to be critical. I fly, and I am not ashamed of that. But we should be honest with ourselves, and not think that riding a bus once in a while and buying locally-sourced vegetables makes up for taking three international trips a year. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dio... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviatio... [3] http://www.stewartmarion.com/carbon-footprint/html/carbon-footprint-car.html http://www.stewartmarion.com/carbon-footprint/html/carbon-fo...