6 ms·

Skype, Spotify, Angry Birds creators to advise EU in "Startup Europe" campaign

41 points by jennyjenjen 14y ago

amirmc 14y ago
It's beginning to bother me that 'Starup' is becoming more conflated with 'Web business' (as the OP does). Software may be eating the world but the scope for disruptive innovation is far larger and should also be highlighted.
- Vlaix 14y ago
  Well it's EU-related, so anything other than conceited BS would be paranormal.
qnk 14y ago
This group should push for legislation changes also. It's not only about networking or spreading the word. I, particularly want to expose the Spanish case: youth unemployment is around 50% and Spain is really far away in the list of most friendly places to start a business. It's really hard to start your own company in a garage and automatically start owing the government a €340 monthly fee, especially when that's the amount of money some families have at hand to feed themselves. Many talented people, courageous enough to start their business go to The UK and do it for a one time fee, that's around 70€. In Spain we're talking about ~€5000 on your first year of operation, just because you own "My Startup Inc." on paper. Please Europe, make it easier for European entrepreneurs to start our businesses. The entry barrier in countries like Spain are discouraging people from doing it. Edit: grammar.
- Silhouette 14y ago
  The amount of time and number of Euros/pounds spent on forming a legal entity to represent your company is typically small compared to the ongoing overheads. In the UK, these include: - paying an accountant to prepare and submit your annual financial statements - mandatory insurance policies, sometimes under conditions where it seems doubtful they would ever actually help anyone (except the insurance company, I suppose) - preparing and filing tax returns annually/quarterly/monthly, depending on circumstances and how many different kinds of tax apply to you - filing an annual return with Companies House. And that's just to exist, before you even start buying or selling anything, having any employees, dealing with any sort of financial services or outside investment, working with anyone's personal data... So while the cost of starting a company is certainly a significant issue in some places, I'd say the general issues of tax/legal red tape, employer obligations, and one-sided deals with large suppliers/clients/service providers are far more damaging overall.
  - bjornsing 14y ago
    Have you started a company from absolute scratch? It's gut wrenching, you work like hell and lose hard earned money every month. Unless of course you're well connected and can get funding from day one. I can absolutely see how a perpetual 340 EUR per month can tip the scale in favor of default: keep working the confy job. Does it matter once you're up an running? No, you're right it doesn't.
    - Silhouette 14y ago
      Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm only arguing that in the UK, although the cost of forming a limited company is relatively low, the other, ongoing overheads of operating such a company are much higher, and therefore represent the greater deterrent to potential entrepreneurs. This position seems consistent with criticising the €340/month charged elsewhere that you and qnk have mentioned.
- arkitaip 14y ago
  Just for comparison, creating a limited company/corporation in Sweden requires a share capital of at least 5930 EUR plus a 225 EUR one-time registration fee. Saddest part? We're falling behind in the rankings as other countries are removing these unnecessary barriers [1]. [1] http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploreeconomies/sweden/ http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploreeconomies/sweden/
  - bjornsing 14y ago
    There's a huge difference though: if you fold you get to keep the share capital, and if you don't you get to use it for company expenses.
- derda 14y ago
  I am not familiar with the Spanish tax system, but can't you simply register a Ltd in the UK? EU law says that you are free to incorporate your company where ever you want (in the EU). Or what is this 340€ /month about? Germany saw the problem of many people incorporating in the UK a few years ago and introduced a limited liability company with starting at (theoretically) 1€ capital, called UG. Previously the GmbH required 25.000€. Wiki tells me the needed capital for a Spanisch S.L. is 3006€, not that much. But I can't find the 340€? What is it about.
  - 1880 14y ago
    If you want to be a "trabajador autónomo" (autonomous worker), you have to pay a mandatory monthly fee of about 250€ (it varies a bit on your activity, if you want extra coverage, etc). There are some discounts, if you are under 30 (35 if you're a woman) and it's your first time being an "autónomo", you pay only 20% of the tax on the first 6 months and 50% on the next 18. The 20% thing was approved about a month ago, and it's been a bureaucratic mess. I applied to it on the first day of being on the law, and as of today I'm still waiting for approval. Apparently their systems are not prepared for this discount and they have to be applied manually. Of course you don't have to wait, you can pay full rate and then claim the difference, but that could take months. If you create a SL, you must designate a legal administrator, and the cheapest way is being an "autónomo". Edit: about creating a Ltd in the UK, if your revenues are more than 50% from Spain, you will be fined by the Spanish IRS for capital flight. It's not easy.
    - derda 14y ago
      So that money goes into health insurance and social security? If you work as an "autónomo" and your business fails, do you qualify for social-security /unemployment benefits? In this case it would not be the worst deal, espacially counting in the discounts. The scandal here is, that the system needs ages to approve the paperwork. Also as I understand EU laws, incorporating somewhere else would not solve the problem, since you are subject to the local taxes at the place where you actually do the work.
      - 14y ago
- switch007 14y ago
  I think qnk is referring to the social security payment ("RETA") you are required to pay when you are registered self-employeed (autónomo). Edit: more info http://spain.angloinfo.com/working/starting-a-business/empresario-individualautonomo/ http://spain.angloinfo.com/working/starting-a-business/empre...
arkitaip 14y ago
Oh this could be hilarious. The world's largest bureaucracy is trying to encourage EU web entrepreneurship in the most bureaucratic way possible for the typical political reasons ("Stay in Europe and create more jobs!"). Even the project web site reeks of EU bureaucracy [1]. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/startup-europe-initiative-european-commission-strengthen-environment-web-entrepreneurs-europe/ https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/startup-europe-initia...
- blaze33 14y ago
  Agreed, European Commission was the last place I expected to see launching such an initiative. On the other hand, my gut feeling after attending web/entrepreneur/conferences is that half of the interesting people I met have actual initiatives or strong interest to help & promote entrepreneurship. So I'm left wondering how this ecosystem of bottom-up initiatives could really connect with the top-down EU. Because it would be a nice thing to have a stronger federation of our local initiatives, especially to help those getting started and also because we can't just go away with legal & bureaucratic issues.
- derda 14y ago
  As much as I'd love to see something useful coming out of the european commision, I don't really see it. The EU (and its bureaucrats) have been proven absolutely useless or even dangerous when it comes to Internet related issues, I can not see them fixing web-entrepreneurship in Europe.
  - LinaLauneBaer 14y ago
    I don't know if european commission == european union but PyPy was funded by the EU initially. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PyPy#Funding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PyPy#Funding
    - arethuza 14y ago
      The EC is the executive branch of the EU: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission
nicrogo 14y ago
The initiative is good because they have, at least, the objective of doing something about it. There is in fact a lot of startup accelerators and incubators being created in Europe based on Y COMBINATOR & TECHSTARS models. There are just not mature enough yet, but this will come. The problem is that, besides London, there is nowhere to go in Europe. The population is generally "old school" and is quite pessimistic, they are simply uninterested. In Europe, people want to work less and earn more while in USA, poeple will do just anything to succeed. It's no miracle that America is the best place for startups, Europe has a different cultures due to different lifestyles. Mentality changes with initiatives so I welcome this one and will wait to see the results before bearing a judgement. After all, when there's no evolution, there is a revolution! It's the moto of the french revolution and France is in Europe so let's be optimistic for this one ;)
- d4nt 14y ago
  As one of the 500 million people wants to "work less and earn more", I'd just like to point out that all Americans are gun slinging Christian fundamentalists. Oh wait, did I just make an assumption about a rich and varied culture all conforming to an exaggerated stereotype?... you know I think I did ;)
  - nicrogo 14y ago
    I know you did because you are probably emotional about it :) You may not be part of the majority but I've lived and traveled in Europe all my life and I can assure you that it is not a stereotype, probably not even 70% but more than 50%. it is a fact that politics, languages, history, cultures and lack of cohesion are barriers for expansion. Most poeple, besides uk, germany and scandinavia, in Europe work less and complain much more than in america (also because they have more weight,rights & insurances). How can you solve a problem if you fail to acknowledge it first? If Europe is still not a startup hub, that's the reason why. So I welcome the initiative which is a proof of a will of change and good analytics.

41 points by jennyjenjen 14y ago

It's beginning to bother me that 'Starup' is becoming more conflated with 'Web business' (as the OP does). Software may be eating the world but the scope for disruptive innovation is far larger and should also be highlighted.

Vlaix 14y ago
Well it's EU-related, so anything other than conceited BS would be paranormal.

qnk 14y ago

This group should push for legislation changes also. It's not only about networking or spreading the word. I, particularly want to expose the Spanish case: youth unemployment is around 50% and Spain is really far away in the list of most friendly places to start a business. It's really hard to start your own company in a garage and automatically start owing the government a €340 monthly fee, especially when that's the amount of money some families have at hand to feed themselves. Many talented people, courageous enough to start their business go to The UK and do it for a one time fee, that's around 70€. In Spain we're talking about ~€5000 on your first year of operation, just because you own "My Startup Inc." on paper. Please Europe, make it easier for European entrepreneurs to start our businesses. The entry barrier in countries like Spain are discouraging people from doing it. Edit: grammar.

Silhouette 14y ago
The amount of time and number of Euros/pounds spent on forming a legal entity to represent your company is typically small compared to the ongoing overheads. In the UK, these include: - paying an accountant to prepare and submit your annual financial statements - mandatory insurance policies, sometimes under conditions where it seems doubtful they would ever actually help anyone (except the insurance company, I suppose) - preparing and filing tax returns annually/quarterly/monthly, depending on circumstances and how many different kinds of tax apply to you - filing an annual return with Companies House. And that's just to exist, before you even start buying or selling anything, having any employees, dealing with any sort of financial services or outside investment, working with anyone's personal data... So while the cost of starting a company is certainly a significant issue in some places, I'd say the general issues of tax/legal red tape, employer obligations, and one-sided deals with large suppliers/clients/service providers are far more damaging overall.
- bjornsing 14y ago
  Have you started a company from absolute scratch? It's gut wrenching, you work like hell and lose hard earned money every month. Unless of course you're well connected and can get funding from day one. I can absolutely see how a perpetual 340 EUR per month can tip the scale in favor of default: keep working the confy job. Does it matter once you're up an running? No, you're right it doesn't.
  - Silhouette 14y ago
    Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm only arguing that in the UK, although the cost of forming a limited company is relatively low, the other, ongoing overheads of operating such a company are much higher, and therefore represent the greater deterrent to potential entrepreneurs. This position seems consistent with criticising the €340/month charged elsewhere that you and qnk have mentioned.
arkitaip 14y ago
Just for comparison, creating a limited company/corporation in Sweden requires a share capital of at least 5930 EUR plus a 225 EUR one-time registration fee. Saddest part? We're falling behind in the rankings as other countries are removing these unnecessary barriers [1]. [1] http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploreeconomies/sweden/ http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploreeconomies/sweden/
- bjornsing 14y ago
  There's a huge difference though: if you fold you get to keep the share capital, and if you don't you get to use it for company expenses.
derda 14y ago
I am not familiar with the Spanish tax system, but can't you simply register a Ltd in the UK? EU law says that you are free to incorporate your company where ever you want (in the EU). Or what is this 340€ /month about? Germany saw the problem of many people incorporating in the UK a few years ago and introduced a limited liability company with starting at (theoretically) 1€ capital, called UG. Previously the GmbH required 25.000€. Wiki tells me the needed capital for a Spanisch S.L. is 3006€, not that much. But I can't find the 340€? What is it about.
- 1880 14y ago
  If you want to be a "trabajador autónomo" (autonomous worker), you have to pay a mandatory monthly fee of about 250€ (it varies a bit on your activity, if you want extra coverage, etc). There are some discounts, if you are under 30 (35 if you're a woman) and it's your first time being an "autónomo", you pay only 20% of the tax on the first 6 months and 50% on the next 18. The 20% thing was approved about a month ago, and it's been a bureaucratic mess. I applied to it on the first day of being on the law, and as of today I'm still waiting for approval. Apparently their systems are not prepared for this discount and they have to be applied manually. Of course you don't have to wait, you can pay full rate and then claim the difference, but that could take months. If you create a SL, you must designate a legal administrator, and the cheapest way is being an "autónomo". Edit: about creating a Ltd in the UK, if your revenues are more than 50% from Spain, you will be fined by the Spanish IRS for capital flight. It's not easy.
  - derda 14y ago
    So that money goes into health insurance and social security? If you work as an "autónomo" and your business fails, do you qualify for social-security /unemployment benefits? In this case it would not be the worst deal, espacially counting in the discounts. The scandal here is, that the system needs ages to approve the paperwork. Also as I understand EU laws, incorporating somewhere else would not solve the problem, since you are subject to the local taxes at the place where you actually do the work.
    - 14y ago
switch007 14y ago
I think qnk is referring to the social security payment ("RETA") you are required to pay when you are registered self-employeed (autónomo). Edit: more info http://spain.angloinfo.com/working/starting-a-business/empresario-individualautonomo/ http://spain.angloinfo.com/working/starting-a-business/empre...

arkitaip 14y ago

Oh this could be hilarious. The world's largest bureaucracy is trying to encourage EU web entrepreneurship in the most bureaucratic way possible for the typical political reasons ("Stay in Europe and create more jobs!"). Even the project web site reeks of EU bureaucracy [1]. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/startup-europe-initiative-european-commission-strengthen-environment-web-entrepreneurs-europe/ https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/startup-europe-initia...

blaze33 14y ago
Agreed, European Commission was the last place I expected to see launching such an initiative. On the other hand, my gut feeling after attending web/entrepreneur/conferences is that half of the interesting people I met have actual initiatives or strong interest to help & promote entrepreneurship. So I'm left wondering how this ecosystem of bottom-up initiatives could really connect with the top-down EU. Because it would be a nice thing to have a stronger federation of our local initiatives, especially to help those getting started and also because we can't just go away with legal & bureaucratic issues.
derda 14y ago
As much as I'd love to see something useful coming out of the european commision, I don't really see it. The EU (and its bureaucrats) have been proven absolutely useless or even dangerous when it comes to Internet related issues, I can not see them fixing web-entrepreneurship in Europe.
- LinaLauneBaer 14y ago
  I don't know if european commission == european union but PyPy was funded by the EU initially. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PyPy#Funding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PyPy#Funding
  - arethuza 14y ago
    The EC is the executive branch of the EU: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission

nicrogo 14y ago

The initiative is good because they have, at least, the objective of doing something about it. There is in fact a lot of startup accelerators and incubators being created in Europe based on Y COMBINATOR & TECHSTARS models. There are just not mature enough yet, but this will come. The problem is that, besides London, there is nowhere to go in Europe. The population is generally "old school" and is quite pessimistic, they are simply uninterested. In Europe, people want to work less and earn more while in USA, poeple will do just anything to succeed. It's no miracle that America is the best place for startups, Europe has a different cultures due to different lifestyles. Mentality changes with initiatives so I welcome this one and will wait to see the results before bearing a judgement. After all, when there's no evolution, there is a revolution! It's the moto of the french revolution and France is in Europe so let's be optimistic for this one ;)

d4nt 14y ago
As one of the 500 million people wants to "work less and earn more", I'd just like to point out that all Americans are gun slinging Christian fundamentalists. Oh wait, did I just make an assumption about a rich and varied culture all conforming to an exaggerated stereotype?... you know I think I did ;)
- nicrogo 14y ago
  I know you did because you are probably emotional about it :) You may not be part of the majority but I've lived and traveled in Europe all my life and I can assure you that it is not a stereotype, probably not even 70% but more than 50%. it is a fact that politics, languages, history, cultures and lack of cohesion are barriers for expansion. Most poeple, besides uk, germany and scandinavia, in Europe work less and complain much more than in america (also because they have more weight,rights & insurances). How can you solve a problem if you fail to acknowledge it first? If Europe is still not a startup hub, that's the reason why. So I welcome the initiative which is a proof of a will of change and good analytics.