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Shocking news: downsides of the US being blamed on demographics and size. This satisfies the population to accept the crappiness. I've had this conversation to

Shocking news: downsides of the US being blamed on demographics and size. This satisfies the population to accept the crappiness. I've had this conversation too many times, but I'll say it again: Americans (and all people who have not lived abroad) tend to overestimate the differences within their own population and underestimate the differences in outside populations. You overestimate the diversivness of America. This is about the point someone says something stupid like Alabama and California are as different as two different countries.

bromang 14y ago
Should we ignore demographics? Why?
- purplelobster 14y ago
  If you keep blaming demographics for everything, then you're giving up. How about, instead of blaming demographics, blame the lack of integration programs, lack of free education and opportunity for everyone, regardless of income, lack of equality in education quality. If a certain demographic comes in as poor individuals and you do nothing to help them, then that's where they'll stay.
thrownaway2424 14y ago
In what way did I overestimate the diversity of America? Our foreign-born population is triple that (by ratio) of Finland, and Finland's foreign-born consist primarily of other scandanavian people who are closely related (Russians and Swedes). Only 80% of Americans are native English speakers while over 90% of Finns are native Finnish. Note that I'm not just picking on Finland here, I'm pointing out that homogeneous peoples are easier to educate than diverse peoples. Locally nondiverse areas of the USA demonstrate the same phenomenon. Portland, the place that Linus is complaining about, is even more diverse than the USA average with 14% foreign born and 20% of households speaking non-English languages. Almost any major city in the USA is going to have a far more diverse population than Finland, and you'll find that the more diverse the city, the larger its educational problems are.
- purplelobster 14y ago
  Agreed, Finland is a very homogeneous country, but you just have to look across the Baltic to find a very similar country with similar immigration levels to the US (Sweden), which I happen to be from. Now the difference is what kind of immigrants the US gets versus European countries. The US has a much higher ratio of skilled immigrant workers. It's very difficult to get in to this country without a STEM master's degree, I'd know. Almost nobody moves to Sweden for the reason to work. They move to Sweden because they might be killed in their home country if they don't leave, and it's one of the few countries that can't turn away immigrants who face threats to their lives. Now look at Portland, which I also happen to live in. It might have a lot of immigrants, but come ON! Are you really using Portland as an example of a dysfunctional place? Portland? Personally, I think this is one of the best places in this country. If I'd go by the correlation then I'd say more diverse populations result in better communities, but I wouldn't go that far. I'll admit that diverse populations do create problems, but I think it's a cop out for people to blame that for any little problem you might be facing. Man up and take some responsibility. And this is the point where people start using size as an argument, and how states within the country differ sooo much. I've had long discussions with several people saying that New York and Texas are as different as France and Germany. Which is just ludicrous and shows how little they know about the world. Btw, Russians and Finns are not closely related in any sense. If you said that to a Finn they'd probably kill you, just giving a heads up. Swedes and Finns are more intertwined by history and culture than related in the genetic or language sense. If you told a Finn that they're related to Swedes they might kill you slightly for that too.

bromang 14y ago

Should we ignore demographics? Why?

purplelobster 14y ago
If you keep blaming demographics for everything, then you're giving up. How about, instead of blaming demographics, blame the lack of integration programs, lack of free education and opportunity for everyone, regardless of income, lack of equality in education quality. If a certain demographic comes in as poor individuals and you do nothing to help them, then that's where they'll stay.

thrownaway2424 14y ago

In what way did I overestimate the diversity of America? Our foreign-born population is triple that (by ratio) of Finland, and Finland's foreign-born consist primarily of other scandanavian people who are closely related (Russians and Swedes). Only 80% of Americans are native English speakers while over 90% of Finns are native Finnish. Note that I'm not just picking on Finland here, I'm pointing out that homogeneous peoples are easier to educate than diverse peoples. Locally nondiverse areas of the USA demonstrate the same phenomenon. Portland, the place that Linus is complaining about, is even more diverse than the USA average with 14% foreign born and 20% of households speaking non-English languages. Almost any major city in the USA is going to have a far more diverse population than Finland, and you'll find that the more diverse the city, the larger its educational problems are.

purplelobster 14y ago
Agreed, Finland is a very homogeneous country, but you just have to look across the Baltic to find a very similar country with similar immigration levels to the US (Sweden), which I happen to be from. Now the difference is what kind of immigrants the US gets versus European countries. The US has a much higher ratio of skilled immigrant workers. It's very difficult to get in to this country without a STEM master's degree, I'd know. Almost nobody moves to Sweden for the reason to work. They move to Sweden because they might be killed in their home country if they don't leave, and it's one of the few countries that can't turn away immigrants who face threats to their lives. Now look at Portland, which I also happen to live in. It might have a lot of immigrants, but come ON! Are you really using Portland as an example of a dysfunctional place? Portland? Personally, I think this is one of the best places in this country. If I'd go by the correlation then I'd say more diverse populations result in better communities, but I wouldn't go that far. I'll admit that diverse populations do create problems, but I think it's a cop out for people to blame that for any little problem you might be facing. Man up and take some responsibility. And this is the point where people start using size as an argument, and how states within the country differ sooo much. I've had long discussions with several people saying that New York and Texas are as different as France and Germany. Which is just ludicrous and shows how little they know about the world. Btw, Russians and Finns are not closely related in any sense. If you said that to a Finn they'd probably kill you, just giving a heads up. Swedes and Finns are more intertwined by history and culture than related in the genetic or language sense. If you told a Finn that they're related to Swedes they might kill you slightly for that too.