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Thanks for your comment pifflesnort. Quite a few points mentioned, so will break it up. i) CNC - 1951 - Not new at all - However its price point is completely

Thanks for your comment pifflesnort. Quite a few points mentioned, so will break it up. i) CNC - 1951 - Not new at all - However its price point is completely new dropping 10X in price since my university paid $250,000 for theirs, now $20,000. Also skills are increasing rapidly no longer limited to several schools, but being taught everywhere. ii) There will always be costs. Given the drop in costs above to use CNC on-demand means the costs are reasonable to get this started. Ten years ago would have been impossible. iii) Can the end-user/maker finish the stool (paint/varnish) iv) Working with raw wood which has its market. It's not everyone, but I believe large enough to get this started. Other options are available later, melamine would be easiest and ot expand this system into solid woods. v) With the right designs none of the additional labour you mention is needed. http://creativecncdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cnc-scissor-chair-816x1024.jpg http://creativecncdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cnc-...

jamesmcbennett 14y ago
And I think you make some great points, I see them as challenges, not impassable gates. I see complexity such as this http://www.dezeen.com/2008/10/27/joints-by-nathan-wierink/ http://www.dezeen.com/2008/10/27/joints-by-nathan-wierink/ going mass market. Also there are many things this model can do that IKEA cannot do and cannot switch their model to doing, most obviously the long tail of design.
pifflesnort 14y ago
> iii) Can the end-user/maker finish the stool (paint/varnish) Given the cost of one-off production runs + shipping, why wouldn't I buy a stool that's already finished? > iv) Working with raw wood which has its market. It's not everyone, but I believe large enough to get this started. Other options are available later, melamine would be easiest and ot expand this system into solid woods. > v) With the right designs none of the additional labour you mention is needed. Why would a consumer choose raw wood or a design like that (especially if they have to build it themselves) over a flat-pack Ikea or CB2 chair that will be better finished, possibly steal from an existing designer style, and be about the same price, if not cheaper?
- jamesmcbennett 14y ago
  You make the assumption that it is like for like. IKEA does average products for average people, it is not the Amazon of the furniture world, it is the Borders. If we want to offer furniture specific to airbnb users that is more privacy orientated, we do so. If we want a desk for the guy that works from home with his dog and wants a desk/doghouse to suit his life, we do so. If we want a bookshelf for the phaidon buyer that needs specific bookshelf dimensions, we do so. (Or rather will do so....) Lastly, when you look at the designs done, they are mind-blowingly cool. (I used to work for one of the world's top design offices, so have a strong network there.) I agree with many of your points, thanks for taking the time to write them, much appreciated, but want to put these challenges to the test as I strongly believe several of them can be overcome.
  - pifflesnort 14y ago
    On the non-average product for non-average people front, I'll share my experience. Personally, my house is decorated with a mix of big brand furniture (ligne roset), smaller designer/brand management stuff (de la espada), and local (nyc/brooklyn) designed+made furniture. The local stuff was all made-to-order, and I was able to see examples of the designer/builder's work by visiting local retail/studio spaces, and then commission custom work based on their existing designs. A large part of my willingness to purchase something custom/one-off is based on having examples and history of quality product being produced by that designer/manufacturer. If things are one-off cut (or assembled) by crowd-sourced people, then I'm unlikely to have much faith in the end-result. On top of this, seeing is very much believing, and (I might be unusual in this) I really need to see design in person before I'll commit. I don't see how it's possible to separate responsibility for design from responsibility for production. When I buy a brand-name or local designer's work, it's their brand that is associated with the produced product. The same exists in electronics -- foxconn might assemble Apple's iPhones, but Apple's name is riding on the quality. If this relationship is broken up, why would I pay premium design prices for custom designed furniture that is CNC-cut by crowd-sourced production houses and shipped to me for assembly? If I'm not paying premium design prices, how would a designer be able to afford spending time designing a custom piece of furniture for me?

jamesmcbennett 14y ago

And I think you make some great points, I see them as challenges, not impassable gates. I see complexity such as this http://www.dezeen.com/2008/10/27/joints-by-nathan-wierink/ http://www.dezeen.com/2008/10/27/joints-by-nathan-wierink/ going mass market. Also there are many things this model can do that IKEA cannot do and cannot switch their model to doing, most obviously the long tail of design.

pifflesnort 14y ago

> iii) Can the end-user/maker finish the stool (paint/varnish) Given the cost of one-off production runs + shipping, why wouldn't I buy a stool that's already finished? > iv) Working with raw wood which has its market. It's not everyone, but I believe large enough to get this started. Other options are available later, melamine would be easiest and ot expand this system into solid woods. > v) With the right designs none of the additional labour you mention is needed. Why would a consumer choose raw wood or a design like that (especially if they have to build it themselves) over a flat-pack Ikea or CB2 chair that will be better finished, possibly steal from an existing designer style, and be about the same price, if not cheaper?

jamesmcbennett 14y ago
You make the assumption that it is like for like. IKEA does average products for average people, it is not the Amazon of the furniture world, it is the Borders. If we want to offer furniture specific to airbnb users that is more privacy orientated, we do so. If we want a desk for the guy that works from home with his dog and wants a desk/doghouse to suit his life, we do so. If we want a bookshelf for the phaidon buyer that needs specific bookshelf dimensions, we do so. (Or rather will do so....) Lastly, when you look at the designs done, they are mind-blowingly cool. (I used to work for one of the world's top design offices, so have a strong network there.) I agree with many of your points, thanks for taking the time to write them, much appreciated, but want to put these challenges to the test as I strongly believe several of them can be overcome.
- pifflesnort 14y ago
  On the non-average product for non-average people front, I'll share my experience. Personally, my house is decorated with a mix of big brand furniture (ligne roset), smaller designer/brand management stuff (de la espada), and local (nyc/brooklyn) designed+made furniture. The local stuff was all made-to-order, and I was able to see examples of the designer/builder's work by visiting local retail/studio spaces, and then commission custom work based on their existing designs. A large part of my willingness to purchase something custom/one-off is based on having examples and history of quality product being produced by that designer/manufacturer. If things are one-off cut (or assembled) by crowd-sourced people, then I'm unlikely to have much faith in the end-result. On top of this, seeing is very much believing, and (I might be unusual in this) I really need to see design in person before I'll commit. I don't see how it's possible to separate responsibility for design from responsibility for production. When I buy a brand-name or local designer's work, it's their brand that is associated with the produced product. The same exists in electronics -- foxconn might assemble Apple's iPhones, but Apple's name is riding on the quality. If this relationship is broken up, why would I pay premium design prices for custom designed furniture that is CNC-cut by crowd-sourced production houses and shipped to me for assembly? If I'm not paying premium design prices, how would a designer be able to afford spending time designing a custom piece of furniture for me?