4 ms·

I hope what you're building is open source and resides 100% on the client's machine. Because if it's closed source or makes use of your servers, then it can't

by gnosis 14y ago

I hope what you're building is open source and resides 100% on the client's machine. Because if it's closed source or makes use of your servers, then it can't be trusted, no matter what lofty rhetoric you use to advertise it. The fact is that if it makes use of your servers, you have the power to spy on the people using your service. You may claim that you won't, and provide a lovely privacy policy, but there's no way for the users to make sure you're actually adhering to those policies. Then it comes down to trust, and some of us don't have a lot of trust left. This is why I use client-based, open source RSS readers like Newsbeuter,[1] and will not be moving to any web-based reader, no matter what features they have or how concerned they claim to be about privacy. That said, if I had to use a web-based service, I'd much rather use one that claimed to have a commitment to privacy than one that didn't. So kudos to you for that. [1] - http://www.newsbeuter.org/index.html http://www.newsbeuter.org/index.html

amirmc 14y ago
One of the issues in the multi-device world is that you want to have some kind of sync across those devices. From what I can gather, this was one of the most useful features of using Reader as the backend and I can't see how to replicate it without having some kind of central server. This is a more general problem and (I believe) it will become more important in the coming years.
- gnosis 14y ago
  I don't see why an RSS app that resides 100% on a mobile device couldn't sync directly with another RSS app that resides 100% on your home computer or your work computer. No external RSS service necessary. That said, I understand that sometimes externally controlled and centralized services can provide features and convenience at the expense of user control and privacy. I care enough about my privacy, and aware enough of the alternatives to choose to tend to choose privacy over features and convenience (when I'm faced with such a choice). I know a lot of users don't care about their privacy, don't realize how loss of privacy could impact them, or don't know that there are alternatives. So they often choose to use "free" web services that give them some features or convenience (or just because all their friends use it, etc.). This is unfortunate, but hopefully as more people become computer literate, the media exposes more cases of privacy violations, and more people become victims of identity theft, internet stalking, harrassment, and discrimination based on their computer and internet use habits, they'll start to wisen up and care more about privacy. I only hope that by then it won't be too late.
  - pseut 14y ago
    Agree completely. I'd love to use my phone as the sync server, the thing's on and under-utilized all the time anyway.
    - tanzam75 14y ago
      That is a very good point. It used to be that you had to keep your computer on to serve as your own cloud. If your electricity prices were high, this didn't make sense. But now, the smartphone is the always-on computer. And it uses minimal power -- possibly even less power than cloud computing, which is deliberately oversized in order to handle peak loads. I suspect it's too complicated for non-geeks to figure out, though. There are also certain drawbacks-- for example, your phone has real storage limits, while the cloud can expand without user intervention.
  - amirmc 14y ago
    I also care about privacy and data ownership [1] but the specific issue I was getting at is the 'always-on, always-connected' feature of cloud services (regardless of whether they're under your control or not). > "I don't see why an RSS app that resides 100% on a mobile device couldn't sync directly with another RSS app that resides 100% on your home computer or your work computer. No external RSS service necessary." How would my phone know what I'd read on my computer if I'd already left the house? Of course, it's possible in principle but wouldn't some form of cloud-based co-ordination be necessary in order to make the experience seamless for a user? I'd be keen to know if there's something I've overlooked here. [1] I'm working on a set of projects related to it - http://perscon.net http://perscon.net (site needs updating but there's enough to give you an idea)
    - gnosis 14y ago
      "How would my phone know what I'd read on my computer if I'd already left the house?" Your phone could just contact your home computer via IP address (or maybe domain name, dynamic or otherwise) your home computer has. Your home computer would, of course, need to be on at the time your phone tries to connect to it (and vice versa). Another option is to use an intermediary server under your control, like perhaps a VPS host that you'd run some syncing software on, and have both the phone and your home computer sync to that. That way, only the VPS and the machine/phone you're syncing from would need to be on at a time (ie. both your phone and home computer wouldn't need to be on at the same time, if that was a problem for you).
orangethirty 14y ago
I reason there is a middle ground. The aim is to, at the very least, get hackers to start thinking about privacy and about building systems that are beneficial to society whe respecting the rights of those who use them. I am using open source software, and I am releasing the code when it reaches a point where it can be useful (as django apps/python packages and Lisp libraries). The ALPHA and beta versions f the system (will) reside on my servers until the de-coupled design is completed. Because the real beauty about Nuuton is that is simply a loosely coupled system built on top of a collection of APIs. The client drives all of the logic and simpy send/receive encrypted data. All data on Nuuton is encrypted. All of it. So, at the ALPHA level it will not be completely open as you state. But it will respect your privacy and will be open to audit to researchers. I believe in privacy and am building a system that respects it. I had never talked about the system itself, but its about to hit early ALPHA. Keep posted for the announcement. Note that those who signed in as ALPHA users get a hacker account with access to the first APIs. I'm pretty sure this project will not become huge. But it will get a of us thinking about making more open systems.
- 18pfsmt 14y ago
  Based on what you've written here, I'm very interested in what you are talking about. However, what I can't understand is why you would choose to go-it-alone, when other projects are looking to do the same thing. Namely, buddycloud.org and tent.io. The open source world seems to get so fractured, even among projects that seem to be aiming at solving the same problem, that none ever gain enough traction to reach the goal with any kind of success. I wish you luck on your project, but I hope you will look at those that have existed before yours (e.g. Diaspora), and those that are taking a new approach (mentioned above). EDIT to add references: https://github.com/tent https://github.com/tent https://github.com/buddycloud https://github.com/buddycloud https://github.com/diaspora https://github.com/diaspora
  - orangethirty 14y ago
    I appreciate the nice gesture. I do know about these other projects, and do consider them as allies. But I believe that the more projects we have like these coming out, the more improvements will there be made as whole.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

by gnosis 14y ago

amirmc 14y ago

One of the issues in the multi-device world is that you want to have some kind of sync across those devices. From what I can gather, this was one of the most useful features of using Reader as the backend and I can't see how to replicate it without having some kind of central server. This is a more general problem and (I believe) it will become more important in the coming years.

gnosis 14y ago
I don't see why an RSS app that resides 100% on a mobile device couldn't sync directly with another RSS app that resides 100% on your home computer or your work computer. No external RSS service necessary. That said, I understand that sometimes externally controlled and centralized services can provide features and convenience at the expense of user control and privacy. I care enough about my privacy, and aware enough of the alternatives to choose to tend to choose privacy over features and convenience (when I'm faced with such a choice). I know a lot of users don't care about their privacy, don't realize how loss of privacy could impact them, or don't know that there are alternatives. So they often choose to use "free" web services that give them some features or convenience (or just because all their friends use it, etc.). This is unfortunate, but hopefully as more people become computer literate, the media exposes more cases of privacy violations, and more people become victims of identity theft, internet stalking, harrassment, and discrimination based on their computer and internet use habits, they'll start to wisen up and care more about privacy. I only hope that by then it won't be too late.
- pseut 14y ago
  Agree completely. I'd love to use my phone as the sync server, the thing's on and under-utilized all the time anyway.
  - tanzam75 14y ago
    That is a very good point. It used to be that you had to keep your computer on to serve as your own cloud. If your electricity prices were high, this didn't make sense. But now, the smartphone is the always-on computer. And it uses minimal power -- possibly even less power than cloud computing, which is deliberately oversized in order to handle peak loads. I suspect it's too complicated for non-geeks to figure out, though. There are also certain drawbacks-- for example, your phone has real storage limits, while the cloud can expand without user intervention.
- amirmc 14y ago
  I also care about privacy and data ownership [1] but the specific issue I was getting at is the 'always-on, always-connected' feature of cloud services (regardless of whether they're under your control or not). > "I don't see why an RSS app that resides 100% on a mobile device couldn't sync directly with another RSS app that resides 100% on your home computer or your work computer. No external RSS service necessary." How would my phone know what I'd read on my computer if I'd already left the house? Of course, it's possible in principle but wouldn't some form of cloud-based co-ordination be necessary in order to make the experience seamless for a user? I'd be keen to know if there's something I've overlooked here. [1] I'm working on a set of projects related to it - http://perscon.net http://perscon.net (site needs updating but there's enough to give you an idea)
  - gnosis 14y ago
    "How would my phone know what I'd read on my computer if I'd already left the house?" Your phone could just contact your home computer via IP address (or maybe domain name, dynamic or otherwise) your home computer has. Your home computer would, of course, need to be on at the time your phone tries to connect to it (and vice versa). Another option is to use an intermediary server under your control, like perhaps a VPS host that you'd run some syncing software on, and have both the phone and your home computer sync to that. That way, only the VPS and the machine/phone you're syncing from would need to be on at a time (ie. both your phone and home computer wouldn't need to be on at the same time, if that was a problem for you).

orangethirty 14y ago

I reason there is a middle ground. The aim is to, at the very least, get hackers to start thinking about privacy and about building systems that are beneficial to society whe respecting the rights of those who use them. I am using open source software, and I am releasing the code when it reaches a point where it can be useful (as django apps/python packages and Lisp libraries). The ALPHA and beta versions f the system (will) reside on my servers until the de-coupled design is completed. Because the real beauty about Nuuton is that is simply a loosely coupled system built on top of a collection of APIs. The client drives all of the logic and simpy send/receive encrypted data. All data on Nuuton is encrypted. All of it. So, at the ALPHA level it will not be completely open as you state. But it will respect your privacy and will be open to audit to researchers. I believe in privacy and am building a system that respects it. I had never talked about the system itself, but its about to hit early ALPHA. Keep posted for the announcement. Note that those who signed in as ALPHA users get a hacker account with access to the first APIs. I'm pretty sure this project will not become huge. But it will get a of us thinking about making more open systems.

18pfsmt 14y ago
Based on what you've written here, I'm very interested in what you are talking about. However, what I can't understand is why you would choose to go-it-alone, when other projects are looking to do the same thing. Namely, buddycloud.org and tent.io. The open source world seems to get so fractured, even among projects that seem to be aiming at solving the same problem, that none ever gain enough traction to reach the goal with any kind of success. I wish you luck on your project, but I hope you will look at those that have existed before yours (e.g. Diaspora), and those that are taking a new approach (mentioned above). EDIT to add references: https://github.com/tent https://github.com/tent https://github.com/buddycloud https://github.com/buddycloud https://github.com/diaspora https://github.com/diaspora
- orangethirty 14y ago
  I appreciate the nice gesture. I do know about these other projects, and do consider them as allies. But I believe that the more projects we have like these coming out, the more improvements will there be made as whole.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]