4 ms·

Wanting to maintain a salary consistent with what you've been earning before you join a company does not make you an asshole. This "asshole" label comes off as

Wanting to maintain a salary consistent with what you've been earning before you join a company does not make you an asshole. This "asshole" label comes off as a strong-arm negotiation tactic on your part. (I may be wrong, but that's how it appears. If I am wrong, please enlighten me). And there is at least decent correlation between ability and the compensation you've received over the past several years.

swombat 14y ago
Wanting to maintain a salary consistent with what you've been earning before you join a company does not make you an asshole. Agreed. But we're talking about desires, not actions, then. This "asshole" label comes off as a strong-arm negotiation tactic on your part. (I may be wrong, but that's how it appears. If I am wrong, please enlighten me). Not at all... However, if/when on the end of a conversation with someone we're hiring, they say "But I need more money", then I explain the system to them. If they then say "I really like your company, but I'm afraid I won't be able to take the offer because it's too low" that's fine. That's not being an asshole, that's just being realistic about what kind of role is a good fit for you. After all, if you have a massive mortgage and 3 kids, getting a massive pay cut - however short-term it may be - is simply not an option, no matter how much you want the role. If, on the other hand, having all the stuff in this discussion basically explained to them, including why I can't give them extra pay initially because it will damage the company culture, they then proceed to insist that they want to get some extra money somehow "because they're worth it", and start explaining to me why they're worth the extra money, and so on, then either they just don't get it (and then they're a bit stupid), or they just don't care about the company they're thinking of joining, and in that case I would be happy to declare them an asshole. And there is at least decent correlation between ability and the compensation you've received over the past several years. Agreed, but I didn't talk about "earning a higher salary", I talked about demanding a higher starting salary in a context where it has been explained that that's not possible.
- charlieflowers 14y ago
  The crux of it is that you have designed a system which you feel can objectively quantify each individual's level of contribution, and then you are willing to directly reward people based on that contribution. And I agree -- if you pull that off, and if you follow through with the reward, then it allows someone to take a lower starting salary, knowing that it is just a matter of time until things get back on the right track. But for many kinds of work, including software development, I've never seen anyone figure out how to quantify individual contributions directly (as Paul Graham talks about [1]). Maybe your company has fewer of those kinds of jobs. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html
  - swombat 14y ago
    > But for many kinds of work, including software development, I've never seen anyone figure out how to quantify individual contributions directly (as Paul Graham talks about [1]). Maybe your company has fewer of those kinds of jobs. That is true and a fair criticism. I'm only talking about the example of my company, not declaring universal rules. :-)

swombat 14y ago

Wanting to maintain a salary consistent with what you've been earning before you join a company does not make you an asshole. Agreed. But we're talking about desires, not actions, then. This "asshole" label comes off as a strong-arm negotiation tactic on your part. (I may be wrong, but that's how it appears. If I am wrong, please enlighten me). Not at all... However, if/when on the end of a conversation with someone we're hiring, they say "But I need more money", then I explain the system to them. If they then say "I really like your company, but I'm afraid I won't be able to take the offer because it's too low" that's fine. That's not being an asshole, that's just being realistic about what kind of role is a good fit for you. After all, if you have a massive mortgage and 3 kids, getting a massive pay cut - however short-term it may be - is simply not an option, no matter how much you want the role. If, on the other hand, having all the stuff in this discussion basically explained to them, including why I can't give them extra pay initially because it will damage the company culture, they then proceed to insist that they want to get some extra money somehow "because they're worth it", and start explaining to me why they're worth the extra money, and so on, then either they just don't get it (and then they're a bit stupid), or they just don't care about the company they're thinking of joining, and in that case I would be happy to declare them an asshole. And there is at least decent correlation between ability and the compensation you've received over the past several years. Agreed, but I didn't talk about "earning a higher salary", I talked about demanding a higher starting salary in a context where it has been explained that that's not possible.

charlieflowers 14y ago
The crux of it is that you have designed a system which you feel can objectively quantify each individual's level of contribution, and then you are willing to directly reward people based on that contribution. And I agree -- if you pull that off, and if you follow through with the reward, then it allows someone to take a lower starting salary, knowing that it is just a matter of time until things get back on the right track. But for many kinds of work, including software development, I've never seen anyone figure out how to quantify individual contributions directly (as Paul Graham talks about [1]). Maybe your company has fewer of those kinds of jobs. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html
- swombat 14y ago
  > But for many kinds of work, including software development, I've never seen anyone figure out how to quantify individual contributions directly (as Paul Graham talks about [1]). Maybe your company has fewer of those kinds of jobs. That is true and a fair criticism. I'm only talking about the example of my company, not declaring universal rules. :-)