7 ms·

I shouldnt need a compelling reason to work some place. I - need a job, presumably they need someone with my skillset, now obvious, there are soft skill concer

by Aloha 14y ago

I shouldnt need a compelling reason to work some place. I - need a job, presumably they need someone with my skillset, now obvious, there are soft skill concerns, do I match the culture, is it going the direction I feel my career ought to go? Other then that, it should be pretty simple.

jfoster 14y ago
You don't need it, but perhaps they do. It's far better for an employer if you're particularly enthusiastic about what you're going to be working on.
Kudos 14y ago
I think you probably need a compelling reason if you're not unemployed and they didn't come to you first.
hmottestad 14y ago
Since there are so many companies out there, giving some reason as to why you picked this particular one seems fair. I would usually go with something compiled together from separate things: - New challenges - Location - Their field of expertise - Their culture
- Kequc 14y ago
  If you have any interest whatsoever in the product they are working on's success for example, tell them that. That's a good thing to tell them. If all you want is any job anywhere then you can probably work at Subway. If all you want is any job anywhere that pays as much as they do then at least tell them that.
- Klinky 14y ago
  This is where it can get murky. If you are firing off a bunch of resumes to jump ship from a poor situation, honesty doesn't get you very far. While if you were targeting the company from the get go, honesty is your best option. It doesn't sound good to say "my current job sucks, and you guys responded to my resume", but if you don't want to say that, then you will scramble to come up with something that sounds like what you think they want to hear. I can understand how a company wants someone enthusiastic for their product/company, on the other hand I can understand how alienating it is to have to bullshit about the reality of your situation.
- timv 14y ago
  My "go to" answer in that situation is to describe the kind of role I'm looking for, and then give some reasons why I think their company matches that. If I'm wrong, and they're a terrible match, then I don't want them to hire me.
vellum 14y ago
You shouldn't need a reason. But if it's a close choice between you and someone who's really good at faking enthusiasm, who do you think they're going with? We're only human, and people like being told their company is awesome. It validates their life choices.
- megablast 14y ago
  Yeah, it might be fake, but it could also be the chance to work somewhere amazing. I have gone to a few jobs like this, where the job was fantastic, involved working on grid computing, traveling around europe. I did not have to fake enthusiasm, but I can imagine a lot of people would not have cared for it.
hackinthebochs 14y ago
A general rule for hiring is that one should never ask a question where its impossible to tell a good bullshit answer from a good answer. The bullshitters will always do better, and thus your biasing your hiring process to bullshitters. Answers to questions should be signal with extremely high information content. A question where a good bullshitter will get a disproportionate amount of points is in fact a net negative to your hiring process. If you're the type that needs personal validation such that you would knock a candidate for saying something like "I need money, you guys are paying in money", then you simply shouldn't ask the question. Of course, people love to think that they have a highly tuned bullshit detector, are immune to blatant flattery, etc. The problem is everyone thinks that. We are all susceptible to these things and we need to make sure our process is such that its not biased towards people who are particularly good at telling you what you want to hear.
- doktrin 14y ago
  Thanks for writing this. It's a succinct and lucid description of the problem with the "commitment & faith" class of interview questions. There are two sides to the coin, of course. I personally don't mind being asked about my motivations because I tend to only apply to companies that I actually want to work at (paychecks notwithstanding).
pbiggar 14y ago
I'm hiring at the moment for CircleCI, and if you don't have a reason to work with us, that's a real red flag. That says you have no particular interest in the job, which means you either don't care about what we're building or what our customers need, or you might jump ship if a job comes up that you really do want. That said, you applied for a job here, so there must be some reason you want it. Maybe "I ended up in a really bad job and I want people who care about their craft", "I love Clojure and you guys write everything in clojure", or "I love your flat organizational structure", or "I like making developer tools". But "i need a job" is a terrible answer, and won't even get you past the phone screen.
- SilasX 14y ago
  >"i need a job" is a terrible answer, and won't even get you past the phone screen. Which is why it should be part of the phone screen. In the article, they didn't even ask this until after the 5 hours of interviews. Ouch.
- ahk 14y ago
  Every girl wants to feel 'special' too. But really, there's 3.5 billion of them. You are just going to weed out all the people who are not bullshitting you, and take in all the people who will. And amazingly, you are happy proclaiming this! I'd thank you for weeding me out though. I like reality. Don't like happy rainbow snowflake dreamland, which you've just outed your company as. Since such things never last.
  - jtheory 14y ago
    Meh. Look at the example reasons in the post you're responding to; you don't need an answer like "I want to save the world, and I'm pretty sure the best place to start is in the plastic chair manufacturing sector". If the best you can offer is "uh I need a job" that means you don't know a damned thing about the company you're applying to, doesn't it? I.e., you found a list of 30 companies that are offering jobs in your city that vaguely match your CV, and instead of reading about them and choosing a few, you're taking the shotgun approach. If you read about them, what made you choose this one? Do they seem like they have a culture that's better than your last job? Do they use a language you like (and/or would like to use more)? Are they doing something you know anything about, or find interesting at all, or can at least categorize as "not morally objectionable"? Almost anything is better than "I need a job".
nonamegiven 14y ago
I agree with you, but honesty can be expressed in different ways. "I'd never heard of you guys, but when I was searching around your thing seemed a lot more interesting than some of the other things." And on the employer side, unless you've actually got tanks out back from having turned water into wine you might notch the erection down a few degrees. There's smart people everywhere, that's not special.

by Aloha 14y ago

jfoster 14y ago

You don't need it, but perhaps they do. It's far better for an employer if you're particularly enthusiastic about what you're going to be working on.

Kudos 14y ago

I think you probably need a compelling reason if you're not unemployed and they didn't come to you first.

hmottestad 14y ago

Since there are so many companies out there, giving some reason as to why you picked this particular one seems fair. I would usually go with something compiled together from separate things: - New challenges - Location - Their field of expertise - Their culture

Kequc 14y ago
If you have any interest whatsoever in the product they are working on's success for example, tell them that. That's a good thing to tell them. If all you want is any job anywhere then you can probably work at Subway. If all you want is any job anywhere that pays as much as they do then at least tell them that.
Klinky 14y ago
This is where it can get murky. If you are firing off a bunch of resumes to jump ship from a poor situation, honesty doesn't get you very far. While if you were targeting the company from the get go, honesty is your best option. It doesn't sound good to say "my current job sucks, and you guys responded to my resume", but if you don't want to say that, then you will scramble to come up with something that sounds like what you think they want to hear. I can understand how a company wants someone enthusiastic for their product/company, on the other hand I can understand how alienating it is to have to bullshit about the reality of your situation.
timv 14y ago
My "go to" answer in that situation is to describe the kind of role I'm looking for, and then give some reasons why I think their company matches that. If I'm wrong, and they're a terrible match, then I don't want them to hire me.

vellum 14y ago

You shouldn't need a reason. But if it's a close choice between you and someone who's really good at faking enthusiasm, who do you think they're going with? We're only human, and people like being told their company is awesome. It validates their life choices.

megablast 14y ago
Yeah, it might be fake, but it could also be the chance to work somewhere amazing. I have gone to a few jobs like this, where the job was fantastic, involved working on grid computing, traveling around europe. I did not have to fake enthusiasm, but I can imagine a lot of people would not have cared for it.

hackinthebochs 14y ago

A general rule for hiring is that one should never ask a question where its impossible to tell a good bullshit answer from a good answer. The bullshitters will always do better, and thus your biasing your hiring process to bullshitters. Answers to questions should be signal with extremely high information content. A question where a good bullshitter will get a disproportionate amount of points is in fact a net negative to your hiring process. If you're the type that needs personal validation such that you would knock a candidate for saying something like "I need money, you guys are paying in money", then you simply shouldn't ask the question. Of course, people love to think that they have a highly tuned bullshit detector, are immune to blatant flattery, etc. The problem is everyone thinks that. We are all susceptible to these things and we need to make sure our process is such that its not biased towards people who are particularly good at telling you what you want to hear.

doktrin 14y ago
Thanks for writing this. It's a succinct and lucid description of the problem with the "commitment & faith" class of interview questions. There are two sides to the coin, of course. I personally don't mind being asked about my motivations because I tend to only apply to companies that I actually want to work at (paychecks notwithstanding).

pbiggar 14y ago

I'm hiring at the moment for CircleCI, and if you don't have a reason to work with us, that's a real red flag. That says you have no particular interest in the job, which means you either don't care about what we're building or what our customers need, or you might jump ship if a job comes up that you really do want. That said, you applied for a job here, so there must be some reason you want it. Maybe "I ended up in a really bad job and I want people who care about their craft", "I love Clojure and you guys write everything in clojure", or "I love your flat organizational structure", or "I like making developer tools". But "i need a job" is a terrible answer, and won't even get you past the phone screen.

SilasX 14y ago
>"i need a job" is a terrible answer, and won't even get you past the phone screen. Which is why it should be part of the phone screen. In the article, they didn't even ask this until after the 5 hours of interviews. Ouch.
ahk 14y ago
Every girl wants to feel 'special' too. But really, there's 3.5 billion of them. You are just going to weed out all the people who are not bullshitting you, and take in all the people who will. And amazingly, you are happy proclaiming this! I'd thank you for weeding me out though. I like reality. Don't like happy rainbow snowflake dreamland, which you've just outed your company as. Since such things never last.
- jtheory 14y ago
  Meh. Look at the example reasons in the post you're responding to; you don't need an answer like "I want to save the world, and I'm pretty sure the best place to start is in the plastic chair manufacturing sector". If the best you can offer is "uh I need a job" that means you don't know a damned thing about the company you're applying to, doesn't it? I.e., you found a list of 30 companies that are offering jobs in your city that vaguely match your CV, and instead of reading about them and choosing a few, you're taking the shotgun approach. If you read about them, what made you choose this one? Do they seem like they have a culture that's better than your last job? Do they use a language you like (and/or would like to use more)? Are they doing something you know anything about, or find interesting at all, or can at least categorize as "not morally objectionable"? Almost anything is better than "I need a job".

nonamegiven 14y ago

I agree with you, but honesty can be expressed in different ways. "I'd never heard of you guys, but when I was searching around your thing seemed a lot more interesting than some of the other things." And on the employer side, unless you've actually got tanks out back from having turned water into wine you might notch the erection down a few degrees. There's smart people everywhere, that's not special.