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Ahhh....I think the two concepts (buyers market vs. talent shortage) are related. It's a "Buyer's Market" right now for average talent. And honestly, most star

Ahhh....I think the two concepts (buyers market vs. talent shortage) are related. It's a "Buyer's Market" right now for average talent. And honestly, most start-ups only need average (competent) talent. But if you need above-average talent, there's a perpetual shortage. Speaking from experience (and I'm NOT a name you've likely heard of -- I'm just a generalist who is good at low-level through high-level code and API design and have a resume that reflects that), once I get through a technical interview with a company they usually are inclined to make a position for me, whether or not they previously had one available. And by "usually" I mean that I've gotten a job offer from more than half the companies I've ever interviewed with. Feels like a Seller's Market to me, and has for 20 years (with the exception of the 6 months following 9/11 when most of the US was in shock).

victorh 14y ago
API design is really key to working together. If I could pick one thing about myself to improve right now it would be API design skills. I think a lot of other programmers don't get it for whatever reason, so I can see why that would be in high demand.
- SomeCallMeTim 14y ago
  >If I could pick one thing about myself to improve right now it would be API design skills. I know it's cliche to suggest, but learn by doing. You need to think about what you're doing, of course. Otherwise you're just doing things by rote. One thing I love to do when designing an API is to write pseudo-code that is using the new API, before I even start to design the API itself. Just think to yourself, "What is the exact call I want to be able to make?" That call probably doesn't have a dozen parameters, or 15 lines of set-up. It has the minimal information you need to get things done. Oh, and one other trick: If anything EVER annoys you about an API, decide to fix it rather than putting up with it. I don't care if it's NOT "your" API to fix; wrap it with convenience functions if necessary. Good luck.
onemorepassword 14y ago
The bar in this business is still so low that "average" talent is utterly useless and nowhere near "competent". Step outside the HN bubble and you'll know that this business is still seriously fucked, and not getting any better. The only thing that has improved is that many of us, both employers and developers, have gotten better at isolation ourselves from it. We maintain our own little bubble of online communities, conferences and meetups (always the same faces right, never the other 90%) so well that we actually think tech is getting better. Until you start seeing the CV's and talk to candidates from "outside". It's depressing. I wouldn't call that a "Buyer's Market" when it's almost uniformly shit. And it has been that way for as long as I can remember. For the 25+ years I've been in this business any decent programmer can take their pick of offers withing a few weeks, crisis or no crisis. It's a Seller's Market if you have something to offer. Always has been, at least since the 80's.
- SomeCallMeTim 14y ago
  Well, OK, I agree, for the most part. But I have seen CVs of people "outside." Heck, I've accidentally become an expert at fixing people's broken code, or porting crap code from one platform to another. I've SEEN how bad it gets. (And as I type this, I'm procrastinating from porting some code from one platform to another that I'm surprised works at all -- oh wait, it actually crashes All The Time. Sigh.) And I know that even THAT work is filtered so that I only see the code written by people who eventually got something to run at all. Oh, I know how bad it gets. In part it's why I've gone the consulting route; there's no way I'd be adequately compensated working as an employee anywhere. By at least a factor (divisor?) of two. But you have to figure that all of those people who suck are still developers. Professionally. And some of them have been for 20+ years. So someone must hire them. At least sometimes. And that means there's a market for them. And in that market, I continue to assert, is a buyer's market. Now it's a market I have no interest in shopping in. I assume all of these people end up in huge companies that can afford to have people who barely know what they're doing. But someone must hire people from that crowd or they'd give up and take blue collar jobs. Everyone has to eat, right? But yes, you and I and a large fraction (at least) of the HN crowd live in the Seller's Market.

victorh 14y ago

API design is really key to working together. If I could pick one thing about myself to improve right now it would be API design skills. I think a lot of other programmers don't get it for whatever reason, so I can see why that would be in high demand.

SomeCallMeTim 14y ago
>If I could pick one thing about myself to improve right now it would be API design skills. I know it's cliche to suggest, but learn by doing. You need to think about what you're doing, of course. Otherwise you're just doing things by rote. One thing I love to do when designing an API is to write pseudo-code that is using the new API, before I even start to design the API itself. Just think to yourself, "What is the exact call I want to be able to make?" That call probably doesn't have a dozen parameters, or 15 lines of set-up. It has the minimal information you need to get things done. Oh, and one other trick: If anything EVER annoys you about an API, decide to fix it rather than putting up with it. I don't care if it's NOT "your" API to fix; wrap it with convenience functions if necessary. Good luck.

onemorepassword 14y ago

The bar in this business is still so low that "average" talent is utterly useless and nowhere near "competent". Step outside the HN bubble and you'll know that this business is still seriously fucked, and not getting any better. The only thing that has improved is that many of us, both employers and developers, have gotten better at isolation ourselves from it. We maintain our own little bubble of online communities, conferences and meetups (always the same faces right, never the other 90%) so well that we actually think tech is getting better. Until you start seeing the CV's and talk to candidates from "outside". It's depressing. I wouldn't call that a "Buyer's Market" when it's almost uniformly shit. And it has been that way for as long as I can remember. For the 25+ years I've been in this business any decent programmer can take their pick of offers withing a few weeks, crisis or no crisis. It's a Seller's Market if you have something to offer. Always has been, at least since the 80's.

SomeCallMeTim 14y ago
Well, OK, I agree, for the most part. But I have seen CVs of people "outside." Heck, I've accidentally become an expert at fixing people's broken code, or porting crap code from one platform to another. I've SEEN how bad it gets. (And as I type this, I'm procrastinating from porting some code from one platform to another that I'm surprised works at all -- oh wait, it actually crashes All The Time. Sigh.) And I know that even THAT work is filtered so that I only see the code written by people who eventually got something to run at all. Oh, I know how bad it gets. In part it's why I've gone the consulting route; there's no way I'd be adequately compensated working as an employee anywhere. By at least a factor (divisor?) of two. But you have to figure that all of those people who suck are still developers. Professionally. And some of them have been for 20+ years. So someone must hire them. At least sometimes. And that means there's a market for them. And in that market, I continue to assert, is a buyer's market. Now it's a market I have no interest in shopping in. I assume all of these people end up in huge companies that can afford to have people who barely know what they're doing. But someone must hire people from that crowd or they'd give up and take blue collar jobs. Everyone has to eat, right? But yes, you and I and a large fraction (at least) of the HN crowd live in the Seller's Market.