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Welcome to the blacklist. I, for one, very much object to all my clicks and "activity" on a page being captured and streamed down some black hole for god knows

Welcome to the blacklist. I, for one, very much object to all my clicks and "activity" on a page being captured and streamed down some black hole for god knows what purposes. Not to worry though - you are in a good company with all other analytics services out there. The only difference is that you are far more open (and proud?) about how obscenely intrusive your service is, so you get an honorary 2nd spot, right after KissMetrics.

pc86 14y ago
I don't mean this to sound as snarky or mean as it probably will. I'm truly interested in your answer. Why should you have the choice to object? What is obscenely intrusive about tracking how you use an application you (may or may not) pay for? I don't see why anyone would have any reasonable expectation of privacy when they're using a service online. Note I am only referring to analytics contained on a single domain. I'm not making an argument for or against services like FB that track activity across multiple domains.
- mchusma 14y ago
  Agree, was typing my thoughts prior to seeing this pop up.
- huhtenberg 14y ago
  > Why should you have the choice to object? What? Are you asking me to justify having an option of being able to object? That's a bit too meta, with today being Friday and all.
  - emmett 14y ago
    You can't opt-out of server-side tracking. They could easily architect the app to require a round-trip to the server on every call (this is how typical early web apps worked). In that case you really don't have an option to object. Does that bother you too? (A service recording your usage of it) Why is measuring on the client-side different from measuring on the server-side?
    - icebraining 14y ago
      The difference is that server-side tracking doesn't track my clicks, scrolling, mouse moves or if I mistakingly type or paste some personal data (e.g. password) into some text field. Server-side tracking is much more controllable in what and when the information is sent, instead of essentially having Telescreen[1] websites. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen
    - huhtenberg 14y ago
      The privacy trade-offs of pulling the info off a website are simple and well-understood. The trade-offs of a page that keeps pinging a mothership with every mouse wiggle are less comfortable. The trade-offs of a page streaming out user's activity to a dedicated service are even more troublesome.
mchusma 14y ago
To be clear, your on page is basically tracked regardless of whether you even use an analytics service, at least any on page activity that interacts with a webserver. In other words, if you are object to website owners tracking you on their site, then basically you can't use the internet. And to be clear, if you object to in store tracking in physical locations, you are going to be able to shop at fewer and fewer locations (anyplace with a security camera). If you are concerned about cross site tracking or permanent cookies, that is a different issue. Did you see any mention of that for this product? KissMetrics has definitely taken heat for this.
- icebraining 14y ago
  There are levels of tracking. JavaScript enables much more intrusive tracking than server logs. Ever pasted a password into the wrong textfield by mistake? With JS tracking, it may be already in someone's server. if you object to in store tracking in physical locations, you are going to be able to shop at fewer and fewer locations (anyplace with a security camera). Maybe, but at least here in the EU you can't use that footage for analytics or share it with any company. Even our government got CCTV project shut down because they didn't comply with Data Protection laws. I don't advocate for Internet legislation, but I too will block it and wish people were more respectful of others' privacy.
benatkin 14y ago
It was nice of them to post a list of customers so I know which web services to avoid. Now I have another reason to recommend against Posthaven.
cheald 14y ago
That "purpose" is generally to help service providers understand you better so that they can provide a product that better serves your wants and needs, as their customer.
- huhtenberg 14y ago
  Say, you have a desktop client-server app. Outlook, for example. How would you feel if it were uploading every click on the menu and every mouse move (in the confines of its window, of course) to the server. Strictly to help the developer improve the product and make it better for you, their customer. This should be totally OK with you, right?
  - cheald 14y ago
    You mean like Eclipse does? http://www.eclipse.org/epp/usagedata/ http://www.eclipse.org/epp/usagedata/ Yes, if the product is collecting usage information (which does not include personal information) to help the software vendor improve the product, I have no problem with it. I like using good software. It's particularly potent in the context of web software, because you can A/B test and rapidly adapt the product to signals from your analytics packages in order to make sure that you are providing the most usable, most user-friendly product possible to them.
  - DanBC 14y ago
    I'm fine if they tell me they're doing it, and what they're collecting, and giving me an option to turn it off.
    - huhtenberg 14y ago
      Bingo.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
mp3geek 14y ago
Taken care of.. https://hg.adblockplus.org/easylist/rev/b9b1e238ce62 https://hg.adblockplus.org/easylist/rev/b9b1e238ce62 https://hg.fanboy.co.nz/rev/786329f3c981 https://hg.fanboy.co.nz/rev/786329f3c981

pc86 14y ago

I don't mean this to sound as snarky or mean as it probably will. I'm truly interested in your answer. Why should you have the choice to object? What is obscenely intrusive about tracking how you use an application you (may or may not) pay for? I don't see why anyone would have any reasonable expectation of privacy when they're using a service online. Note I am only referring to analytics contained on a single domain. I'm not making an argument for or against services like FB that track activity across multiple domains.

mchusma 14y ago
Agree, was typing my thoughts prior to seeing this pop up.
huhtenberg 14y ago
> Why should you have the choice to object? What? Are you asking me to justify having an option of being able to object? That's a bit too meta, with today being Friday and all.
- emmett 14y ago
  You can't opt-out of server-side tracking. They could easily architect the app to require a round-trip to the server on every call (this is how typical early web apps worked). In that case you really don't have an option to object. Does that bother you too? (A service recording your usage of it) Why is measuring on the client-side different from measuring on the server-side?
  - icebraining 14y ago
    The difference is that server-side tracking doesn't track my clicks, scrolling, mouse moves or if I mistakingly type or paste some personal data (e.g. password) into some text field. Server-side tracking is much more controllable in what and when the information is sent, instead of essentially having Telescreen[1] websites. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen
  - huhtenberg 14y ago
    The privacy trade-offs of pulling the info off a website are simple and well-understood. The trade-offs of a page that keeps pinging a mothership with every mouse wiggle are less comfortable. The trade-offs of a page streaming out user's activity to a dedicated service are even more troublesome.

mchusma 14y ago

To be clear, your on page is basically tracked regardless of whether you even use an analytics service, at least any on page activity that interacts with a webserver. In other words, if you are object to website owners tracking you on their site, then basically you can't use the internet. And to be clear, if you object to in store tracking in physical locations, you are going to be able to shop at fewer and fewer locations (anyplace with a security camera). If you are concerned about cross site tracking or permanent cookies, that is a different issue. Did you see any mention of that for this product? KissMetrics has definitely taken heat for this.

icebraining 14y ago
There are levels of tracking. JavaScript enables much more intrusive tracking than server logs. Ever pasted a password into the wrong textfield by mistake? With JS tracking, it may be already in someone's server. if you object to in store tracking in physical locations, you are going to be able to shop at fewer and fewer locations (anyplace with a security camera). Maybe, but at least here in the EU you can't use that footage for analytics or share it with any company. Even our government got CCTV project shut down because they didn't comply with Data Protection laws. I don't advocate for Internet legislation, but I too will block it and wish people were more respectful of others' privacy.

benatkin 14y ago

It was nice of them to post a list of customers so I know which web services to avoid. Now I have another reason to recommend against Posthaven.

cheald 14y ago

That "purpose" is generally to help service providers understand you better so that they can provide a product that better serves your wants and needs, as their customer.

huhtenberg 14y ago
Say, you have a desktop client-server app. Outlook, for example. How would you feel if it were uploading every click on the menu and every mouse move (in the confines of its window, of course) to the server. Strictly to help the developer improve the product and make it better for you, their customer. This should be totally OK with you, right?
- cheald 14y ago
  You mean like Eclipse does? http://www.eclipse.org/epp/usagedata/ http://www.eclipse.org/epp/usagedata/ Yes, if the product is collecting usage information (which does not include personal information) to help the software vendor improve the product, I have no problem with it. I like using good software. It's particularly potent in the context of web software, because you can A/B test and rapidly adapt the product to signals from your analytics packages in order to make sure that you are providing the most usable, most user-friendly product possible to them.
- DanBC 14y ago
  I'm fine if they tell me they're doing it, and what they're collecting, and giving me an option to turn it off.
  - huhtenberg 14y ago
    Bingo.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

mp3geek 14y ago

Taken care of.. https://hg.adblockplus.org/easylist/rev/b9b1e238ce62 https://hg.adblockplus.org/easylist/rev/b9b1e238ce62 https://hg.fanboy.co.nz/rev/786329f3c981 https://hg.fanboy.co.nz/rev/786329f3c981