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I have no comment whatsoever on Joel, his company, or his products. I don't know him, anyone in his company and don't use his products. I've taken issue with hi
by run4yourlives 18y ago
I have no comment whatsoever on Joel, his company, or his products. I don't know him, anyone in his company and don't use his products. I've taken issue with him previously on this forum.
However, I think you're misunderstanding a Base Salary with a Performance Bonus - which may or may not be annual - and the notion of Total Compensation.
In most companies, including mine, the idea is a that a salary is what you earn in exchange for doing your job to the minimum expected standard. The only reason these salaries aren't equivalent to legislated minimum wage across the board is that there are market forces involved that companies must work within. Joel is simply stating that in most organizations, there is a drive to push this salary as low as possible, and that this creates problems. I see nothing in mine or other's experience that is contrary to that point.
His solution is to basically simplify this equation, and publish it. That's the exact same thing that every union workforce has. The only issue he has with this is that if he miscalculates the market value of a certain level, he'll basically create the conditions for a strike. He recognizes this and explains his workarounds in the article. He also retains the notion of a bonus to help him recognize those he chooses to.
Salary is where employees are paid for their services and that’s where they expect to be rewarded for their performance.
This is clearly where your opinion differs, but this attitude creates the entire situation that Joel is commenting on.
- TomOfTTB 18y agoIf the performance bonus isn't annual than it's no different than a salary. In terms of an employee asking for a raise, how is asking for a larger performance bonus any different than asking for a higher salary? You've just categorized the money differently in your head at that point.
- run4yourlives 18y agoIf the performance bonus isn't annual than it's no different than a salary. Of course it is, in that it's the result of an outcome and isn't guaranteed. There is no company in the world that would mind you asking for a larger bonus. After a certain level however, you need to qualify the value you bring to earn that bonus. If I said to my employer: "If I bring in 200 new users this year, will you give me X more (where X is a percentage of the revenue generated by 200 users) in bonus?"; No competent manager would deny you this.
- TomOfTTB 18y agoI suppose I can see the distinction in that this allows a company to tailor how much each person makes dependent on their performance in a given time frame. That said I certainly wouldn't want to work for that company. Basically what they're saying is "we don't trust you the employee to continue to perform optimally so we're going to make you prove yourself each and every (whatever the time period is) to get a bonus" while the employee has to wonder how much their pay check will be every month (or whatever) That seems more cruel than anything
- run4yourlives 18y agoI'm sorry Tom, but in 95% of for-profit enterprise, you are continually measured against the bottom line, and your performance is constantly evaluated. Most companies do this via your salary in a secretive ranking ladder - which is exactly what Joel is speaking against. I think you agree with him much more than you you think you do. :-)
- gommm 18y agoI'm quite sure that the bonus at fog creek is not based on performance... It is based on profit (he does say that he has a profit sharing plan) but joel is against giving bonuses as incentive... see http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000070.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000070.html Compared to the situation at my old company where salary was determined by how well you negociated, I'm quite sure I prefer joel's version. And when reading the ladder http://joelonsoftware.com/articles/ladder.html http://joelonsoftware.com/articles/ladder.html, it's clear enough so that any disagreement are probably going to be minor (since he's using the average of skill and scope in a lot of cases a one point difference in the skill or scope won't make any difference to the level)
- run4yourlives 18y agoThanks for the clarification. And yeah, I agree with you, I'm quite fond of Joel's system on the surface.
- wlievens 18y agoBonuses are typically based on profit, and then use a small multiplier for performance.