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I just got to wondering, how would charging for a monthly service work in bitcoin? A user can't just give you an account number and say bill me $X every month,

I just got to wondering, how would charging for a monthly service work in bitcoin? A user can't just give you an account number and say bill me $X every month, right? Any thoughts on how to design such a system?

Nursie 14y ago
The user would have to set up a cron-job effectively. All payments have to be initiated by the holder of the wallet.
- tocomment 14y ago
  I guess a future bitcoin client could build in that feature (or an online wallet). Anyone can build a bitcoin wallet right?
  - Nursie 14y ago
    Anyone can build anything really, so long as it conforms to the bitcoin protocol as implemented in the other clients. So yes, you could probably write some sort of crypto-system that allowed continuous authority for a signed-address to be given a certain amount every so often, on request. You wouldn't want to right now though, with the volatility in the value we're seeing right now you'd be a fool to agree to pay the same amount for something next month as you do this month.
hcal 14y ago
The simplest solution is to send a monthly invoice like a mailed utility bill. It might be neat to create or extend a bitcoin client that accepts invoices/requests that you can approve like many bank's bill pay services, but without the middle man. You would need to figure out how to prevent getting spammed with requests. It probably isn't worth the effort though, because I'd bet that one day someone will just make create a credit card based on bitcoin just as they have for most other currencies (I don't think one exists yet).
waterlesscloud 14y ago
I suspect in the long run most of the bitcoin economy, if there continues to be such a thing, will work through payment processing services. These will resemble the banks of today, in that you'll have an account with the service and they'll manage moving your money around for you. Some of this may end up just decreasing one account and increasing another within the same provider. A lot of people assume these payment services will be just like banks, but that's not necessarily the case. There's certainly room for innovation, and so far there's nothing whatsoever that would require them to be subject to any particular nation's regulations. We'll see how it shakes out.
gwern 14y ago
Plenty: A wallet service which you've entrusted your coins to can obviously do recurring payments (bonus: can't hurt you any worse than your total deposit). Your local wallet software could do this (in a more user-friendly fashion than programming a crontab to invoke bitcoind). A credit card would work, regardless of whether you settle your account with the credit card company in bitcoin or dollars. The Bitcoin protocol supports future-dated transactions, but which can be canceled by a user at any point before the future date; so for a 'subscription', a user sends a few transactions worth $X future-dated to each month for the next, say, 5 months. The service holds onto them, and tries to commit them when they mature; if the transaction works, the user gets access for the next month. (See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=22772.msg287925#msg287925 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=22772.msg287925#msg2... https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script )
melvinmt 14y ago
Technical details aside, I don't want to be tied into paying for a service in a currency that fluctuates 30-50% a month. I think that's by far the biggest problem bitcoin currently has.
- mhartl 14y ago
  The price will eventually stabilize (possibly at 0).

Nursie 14y ago

The user would have to set up a cron-job effectively. All payments have to be initiated by the holder of the wallet.

tocomment 14y ago
I guess a future bitcoin client could build in that feature (or an online wallet). Anyone can build a bitcoin wallet right?
- Nursie 14y ago
  Anyone can build anything really, so long as it conforms to the bitcoin protocol as implemented in the other clients. So yes, you could probably write some sort of crypto-system that allowed continuous authority for a signed-address to be given a certain amount every so often, on request. You wouldn't want to right now though, with the volatility in the value we're seeing right now you'd be a fool to agree to pay the same amount for something next month as you do this month.

hcal 14y ago

The simplest solution is to send a monthly invoice like a mailed utility bill. It might be neat to create or extend a bitcoin client that accepts invoices/requests that you can approve like many bank's bill pay services, but without the middle man. You would need to figure out how to prevent getting spammed with requests. It probably isn't worth the effort though, because I'd bet that one day someone will just make create a credit card based on bitcoin just as they have for most other currencies (I don't think one exists yet).

waterlesscloud 14y ago

I suspect in the long run most of the bitcoin economy, if there continues to be such a thing, will work through payment processing services. These will resemble the banks of today, in that you'll have an account with the service and they'll manage moving your money around for you. Some of this may end up just decreasing one account and increasing another within the same provider. A lot of people assume these payment services will be just like banks, but that's not necessarily the case. There's certainly room for innovation, and so far there's nothing whatsoever that would require them to be subject to any particular nation's regulations. We'll see how it shakes out.

gwern 14y ago

Plenty: A wallet service which you've entrusted your coins to can obviously do recurring payments (bonus: can't hurt you any worse than your total deposit). Your local wallet software could do this (in a more user-friendly fashion than programming a crontab to invoke bitcoind). A credit card would work, regardless of whether you settle your account with the credit card company in bitcoin or dollars. The Bitcoin protocol supports future-dated transactions, but which can be canceled by a user at any point before the future date; so for a 'subscription', a user sends a few transactions worth $X future-dated to each month for the next, say, 5 months. The service holds onto them, and tries to commit them when they mature; if the transaction works, the user gets access for the next month. (See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=22772.msg287925#msg287925 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=22772.msg287925#msg2... https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script )

melvinmt 14y ago

Technical details aside, I don't want to be tied into paying for a service in a currency that fluctuates 30-50% a month. I think that's by far the biggest problem bitcoin currently has.

mhartl 14y ago
The price will eventually stabilize (possibly at 0).